Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

Luvthe9 continues to scream FIRE in a crowded theater. Funny, the ones telling everyone to remain calm (Volant?) are the ones stepping over the other patrons at the first whiff of smoke.

" Do what you as professional pilots need to do to get back into the green ...." Thanks 9, that is exactly what I am going to do! The money IS one of the items I used to make my decision.

Luv, you have been whipped by a glossy brochure, and all the red letters you post will not change the outcome. As to that 330 C/O being quoted in the latest Compass distraction...I have never even heard of him. Perhaps the CC guys set him up. They have already been rebutted on the absolute false pretense that the APA will "take" our 87M in yearly benefits. Why would they make the poor guy a patsy when they know the truth? I know why.

The Entire BPR, Officer Core, NAC, and legal team recommend a "yes" vote. The MOU more than addresses the issues the BPR had with the first one (which, by the way, would have given us MORE leverage in the recent negotiations.) One of the main premises of USAPA was not to put you, or even me (dumb pilots!) at the head of the table, and to use professional help. My decision to vote yes was an easy one. Why do you scream and have such angst over the casting of your single "no" vote? Is it troubling you THAT much. I sense some uncertainty, you need to talk to someone.

Greeter

 

[luvthe9]

And then what?

This thing is way to vague and to manygray areas, you are obviously a westie posing to be an east pilot or you are really that stupid, look back at LOA 93, how many side letters, I'm not against an MOU but this thing needs to be looked at better and not rushed I would like if they put this vote off for a short time to really go overit, funny how the hard sell at the shows but no talk on any down side, I guess you just don't get it.

 

[luvthe9]

Luvthe9 continues to scream FIRE in a crowded theater. Funny, the ones telling everyone to remain calm (Volant?) are the ones stepping over the other patrons at the first whiff of smoke.

" Do what you as professional pilots need to do to get back into the green ...." Thanks 9, that is exactly what I am going to do! The money IS one of the items I used to make my decision.

Luv, you have been whipped by a glossy brochure, and all the red letters you post will not change the outcome. As to that 330 C/O being quoted in the latest Compass distraction...I have never even heard of him. Perhaps the CC guys set him up. They have already been rebutted on the absolute false pretense that the APA will "take" our 87M in yearly benefits. Why would they make the poor guy a patsy when they know the truth? I know why.

The Entire BPR, Officer Core, NAC, and legal team recommend a "yes" vote. The MOU more than addresses the issues the BPR had with the first one (which, by the way, would have given us MORE leverage in the recent negotiations.) One of the main premises of USAPA was not to put you, or even me (dumb pilots!) at the head of the table, and to use professional help. My decision to vote yes was an easy one. Why do you scream and have such angst over the casting of your single "no" vote? Is it troubling you THAT much. I sense some uncertainty, you need to talk to someone.

Greeter

Funny Mark, the BPR vote is the usual 6 to 5 not 11-0 we all know that and only the stupid will look at one pay figure and not the whole package. Yes, what ashame we have changed unions unfortunately we still have this same pathetic spineless pilot group. Then legal team will do whatever Hummel tells them to do they could care less at over 30,000 a month, you should know better than that.

 

[Zone5]

No one has to present the list to the APA. The APA has the list and knows how we're ordered under the award. You think you can only use the list if its presented to you with a bow attached to it?
An we really are a minor player. If we vote this MOU down the merger continues without us. Ask the NAC why we had to approach the company for an MOU. The company sure didn't come to us.
If we vote this down, USAPA will represent us until single carrier. In the mean time they will negotiate a contract and, eventually. We'll become APA without a vote.

Not true. Someone (in this case USAPA) not the company, not AOL and not the Easter Bunny, will present the data when the SLI negotiation commences. At which point, according to your vision of how things will work, the APA will just say, "Thanks but no thanks, we will just use this NIC list that we downloaded from the AOL website", really?


seajay

 

[end_of_alpa]

Thank you. And its good to see that you understand that negotiations between the APA and us are going to be pointless as we'll be arguing our methodology to the panel of arbitrators.



We tried something like that, remember? Gold standard, DOH, etc. Nicolau told us to move off of our position and we reiterated gold standard, DOH, etc. I hope we're a bit smarter going into this arbitration than the last time.



They sure are. In the CLT roadshow I attended, Dean was asked point blank what methodology we would be using when we submitted our proposed list and he answered, from the podium, "date of hire."
The info for the steps leading up to the list came from the APA and NAC in between presentations when a group of us were talking to them face to face.

Actually I retract what I said because I think you misinterpret.

APA is going to take what USAPA gives them and use it with their list.

USAPA vice versa. Employment data doesn't go into a big pot and we both fish out the list each wants.

What I'm saying is USAPA is giving APA DOH list under the protocol that iscthe list they use from us and we use the list we are given from them. The companies are neutral.

If we'd isn't agree with each other after sixty we go to arbitration with the lists each was given and go from there.

 

[Claxon]

Look up the date I came online.

Which one? AWA320, Move2, or dca319?

 

[A320 Driver]

Thought I read this and I'm not clear on the reserve deal, It seems if you are on reserve like Driver you DO NOT accrual pay at the new rate, it said for "hours flown". So is it hours flown only or your guarantee.

It is talking about the retrospective pay from the POR back to February 8th. The back pay will either be your guarantee or more if you break guarantee.

 

[luvthe9]

It is talking about the retrospective pay from the POR back to February 8th. The back pay will either be your guarantee or more if you break guarantee.

I would read that again and be sure That will be brought tomorrow because some say you are wrong, I'm not on reserve but not sure on it. I wonder why the attorneys put in hours flown. And yes you could be right.

 

[Phoenix]

I would read that again and be sure That will be brought tomorrow because some say you are wrong, I'm not on reserve but not sure on it. I wonder why the attorneys put in hours flown. And yes you could be right.

Not to worry, the grievance committee has a draft document already for this. Need to get ahead of the curve for the flurry of grievances coming.

 

[A320 Driver]

I would read that again and be sure That will be brought tomorrow because some say you are wrong, I'm not on reserve but not sure on it. I wonder why the attorneys put in hours flown. And yes you could be right.

The specific question was asked in the roadshow I was in and I just gave you the unanimous response from the NAC and Rowland Wilder.

 

[A320 Driver]

Not to worry, the grievance committee has a draft document already for this. Need to get ahead of the curve for the flurry of grievances coming.

Maybe Dave could win this one...

 

[Phoenix]

My question is this: Isn't this the same MOU that the AMR pilots have? A lot of folks on here act as though this were an agreement unique to USAPA, and I don't believe that is true. A lot of it really sucks, but can't it be corrected in negotiations for a JCBA? It seems a lot of the problems are fairly low cost items, like job protections and insurance.

Not trying to make a scene, just want to know if my perceptions are true.

Certainly, if we give DUI the few things that he wants now, that in his words will prevent a merger, then once there is a merger, he will be motivated to give us the things we are interested in, or he might be a bit busy counting his dinero.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Funny Mark, the BPR vote is the usual 6 to 5 not 11-0 we all know that and only the stupid will look at one pay figure and not the whole package. Yes, what ashame we have changed unions unfortunately we still have this same pathetic spineless pilot group. Then legal team will do whatever Hummel tells them to do they could care less at over 30,000 a month, you should know better than that.

No wonder you have no credibility here. Maybe you are not lying, maybe you just don't have a grasp of reality. The vote by the BPR was 11-0. FACT.    A vote is a vote. No wonder you will never hold elected office, you think you can vote one way but tell your constituents you "meant" another?...give me a break. The entire BPR is bound by their word and vote on the MOU, and not just to our pilots. The vote was unanimous. And let me get this straight...Hummel "owns" the legal team, all three handpicked by the CLT reps and voted in by the entire BPR? The Treasurer may cut the checks, but the BPR could in a simple vote replace any of the legal team. Maybe they actually want to do that, considering what a fine job Pat did in PHX in front of Silver? Or what a fine job Brian is doing on the Hill for us? Or Roland bringing us the best potential contract we have had since 911?. Yeah, that's the ticket. You are actually being laughed at. Do you really think Hummel has an evil empire, with dreams of power? You are mistaking him for his predecessor.Greeter

 

[Claxon]

My reference to the company having the Nicolau is only in respect to the validity of the award. The company accepted the award and has since never invalidated or rejected it. In fact, its still in court seeking guidance with regard to it. That doesn't sound like a dead document to me. The courts didn't invalidate it either and, in fact, stated that moving off of it required a LUP which I have yet to hear come from the union.
Leonidas sits on the sideline waiting for ripeness. That's not a secret to the company or the APA. The APA will submit their list using the Nicolau IMHO. It won't be long before I'm proven right or wrong.

Move2Clt fingerprints all over it. Nice try Jurik.

 

[Claxon]

No wonder you have no credibility here. Maybe you are not lying, maybe you just don't have a grasp of reality. The vote by the BPR was 11-0. FACT. A vote is a vote. No wonder you will never hold elected office, you think you can vote one way but tell your constituents you "meant" another?...give me a break. The entire BPR is bound by their word and vote on the MOU, and not just to our pilots. The vote was unanimous. And let me get this straight...Hummel "owns" the legal team, all three handpicked by the CLT reps and voted in by the entire BPR? The Treasurer may cut the checks, but the BPR could in a simple vote replace any of the legal team. Maybe they actually want to do that, considering what a fine job Pat did in PHX in front of Silver? Or what a fine job Brian is doing on the Hill for us? Or Roland bringing us the best potential contract we have had since 911?. Yeah, that's the ticket. You are actually being laughed at. Do you really think Hummel has an evil empire, with dreams of power? You are mistaking him for his predecessor.Greeter

Pantswetter