Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

Most of you aren't idiots. You are empassioned about your desire to evade a final and binding arbitration and squash the PHX based pilots by any means possible (RICO, Address-Gate, etc.). You guys have argued & quoted portions of legal findings that seem to support your case. That's all.

We conversely seek to legally force you into the acceptance of that same legal, final & binding seniority list.

Carry on.

Good luck to you and yours.

 

[AAviator]

They care a whole lot. The APA is going to be drawn into the DFR and they know it. This was told to me first hand by that big APA guy.

Explain...

Side note, have you all looked at what a windfall this will be for the LCC pilotgroup?

Based on retirements... in a coupe of years, a -current- East 320 captain will be making AT LEAST 100% more than he's making now based on the new contract and payrates going forward..

ya'll remember who made this possible.

Ok?

 

[AAviator]

True enough! Does AMR have any of those?


seajay

Not to this degree...

I can think of four or five we got from TWA though!!

😀

 

[dca319]

Explain...

Side note, have you all looked at what a windfall this will be for the LCC pilotgroup?

Based on retirements... in a coupe of years, a -current- East 320 captain will be making AT LEAST 100% more than he's making now based on the new contract and payrates going forward..

ya'll remember who made this possible.

Ok?

USAPA came into this telling us that by changing unions the Nicolau, which was put together under ALPA guidelines, would simply disappear because ALPA was no longer the CBA. That, as we've learned, was not the case as the union coming onto property inherits pretty much everything from the union it replaces. In this case, it included the Nicolau. When the APA becomes our CBA, the APA too will inherit what USAPA inherited including all the potential liabilities. My differ from some other east pilots here because I don't think the Nicolau simply vanishes just because the MOU may say that. I don't think it does. If it was that easy, we would have pulled that off a long time ago.

 

[Metroyet]

Explain...

Side note, have you all looked at what a windfall this will be for the LCC pilotgroup?

Based on retirements... in a coupe of years, a -current- East 320 captain will be making AT LEAST 100% more than he's making now based on the new contract and payrates going forward..

ya'll remember who made this possible.

Ok?

Don't bother. The CLT maniacs will always see themselves as the heros. If you're just getting to know the East/USAPA lunacy, you're in for quite a treat. It goes so far down the rabbit hole it defies belief...yet it's true.

 

[dca319]

ya'll remember who made this possible.

Ok?

According to our CLT reps, it was them so you can email them if you disagree.

 

[Schultz]

Damn, you're stupid. I give up, you win. HE'S RIGHT EVERYBODY.

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID!

He's a She.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The organization that you founder does not listen to the line pilot? Bad karma man.

E courts have already told usapa they have to have a LUP for anything other than e Nicolau. The union APA can tell the us airways division of APA what to present.

The C&BL are a suggestion at best. Not a determining outcome.

No, read the MOU.(again). USAPA (the merger committee and administration compatible with it I would say), as far as the SLI is concerned, maintains its own existence until the SLI is complete.

Only until the completion of the SLI does the total existence of USAPA disappear. Why don't you call Holmes or Calveri and ask them. They'll tell you that.

 

[end_of_alpa]

USAPA came into this telling us that by changing unions the Nicolau, which was put together under ALPA guidelines, would simply disappear because ALPA was no longer the CBA. That, as we've learned, was not the case as the union coming onto property inherits pretty much everything from the union it replaces. In this case, it included the Nicolau. When the APA becomes our CBA, the APA too will inherit what USAPA inherited including all the potential liabilities. My differ from some other east pilots here because I don't think the Nicolau simply vanishes just because the MOU may say that. I don't think it does. If it was that easy, we would have pulled that off a long time ago.

Tell you what, GO ASK THE NAC.

You just can't fix stupid.

 

[end_of_alpa]

According to our CLT reps, it was them so you can email them if you disagree.

If you were based in CLT you would know that.

 

[cleardirect]

Timelines are a MAXIMUM under the MOU. They ARE absolute.

Youcan ASK for an injunction, but based on Judge Silvers judgment, I would say it would be very long odds indeed if it were granted.

Why? Because if the majority vote (an here is the key here) for the MOU, the Statute (McCaskill-Bond) overtakes the jurisdiction of the court. Pat is right about the MOU being neutral on what USAPA OR APA will argue. Each side will argue the merits of THEIR integration methods. But if the majority votes for it, you have to abide by it, like it or not.

You really think the time line are absolute? How cute.

What forces three arbitrators to clear their schedules for 5-10 of seniority arbitration in the next few months. Talk to the grievance committee and ask how soon they can schedule a 3 day termination hearing with one arbitrator.

You can try the majority rule play again but majority does not over ride the law or court orders.

Better read the update from usapa. We only get a vote on seniority if there is a negotiated list. There not be. We don't get to vote on an arbitrated list. The majority has nothing to do with it.

If usapa has said that the MOU is neutral on the Nicolau then tries to argue that the majority really voted to end the Nicolau.

Oh, fraud, DFR. Bad karma.

 

[Black Swan]

Ummmm. You do understand that this MOU II? This is not the first offer.

Besides the CLT reps are saying they saved us all by getting a better deal. Are you saying the CLT reps failed and should be recalled?

Then the second offer sucks, and gets rejected too. You are exactly the ones Parker can hook. Afraid of their own shadow.Follow the last step in a bad deal. Walk away if the offer is substandard. Something you probably have no idea about. Your idea of being at the table is absurd. If they invited you to the table, then you are merely the appetizer.

 

[Black Swan]

Most of you aren't idiots. You are empassioned about your desire to evade a final and binding arbitration and squash the PHX based pilots by any means possible (RICO, Address-Gate, etc.). You guys have argued & quoted portions of legal findings that seem to support your case. That's all.

We conversely seek to legally force you into the acceptance of that same legal, final & binding seniority list.

Carry on.

Good luck with that. Your lack of understanding about what is and isn't binding has cost your constituency years and millions.

 

[dca319]

If you were based in CLT you would know that.

What?

 

[dca319]

Tell you what, GO ASK THE NAC.

You just can't fix stupid.

No, you can't. After nearly a decade on LOA 93 your point has been proven.