Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

Funny how Dean, our lawyer, Owens, etc. all say otherwise. How did you get so smart?

Sigh! It seems that I now must reasonably withdraw even the slightest suggestion for you read, analyze and at all think for yourself at any level. So be it. This isn't of any long-term, selfish concern to me, and you'll be the one living with the results of your "thinking". Once again: Good Luck!

 

[EastUS1]

Please. Ask me a question about the previous century. This is insulting.

Sigh! Why bother? You're clearly unable to even field rational responses to questions concerning the current scenario. The very best you're apparently capable of forwarding in response to questions and/or observations concerning easily seen, even glaring issues in just contract language alone is, at you best, but such pithy gems as "How did you get so smart"?

Such "critical thinking" limits you to being nothing more than management's little toy. That you can't begin to see even that much isn't my problem. Management's legal staff must laugh themselves to sleep at such as yourself.

Here's a slow pitch right down the middle for you: Why not at least first ensure a re-write of the contractual language removing all ambiguity? Produce an instrument that's clear and concise at every step, ensuring that all seemingly agreed upon intentions will indeed be executed via ironclad, legal compulsion. Can ANYONE, anywhere (that's even the slightest semblance of sane) reasonably have even the smallest objection to doing that? The existing instrument is a total joke in those respects...the ONLY notable exception being the portion that VERY CLEARLY and unequivocally surrenders the CoC....Gosh!...I "wonder" why that's the ONLY portion that's so constructed...?

 

[nycbusdriver]

So USAPA is now worse than ALPA?

Well, yes, it is. Or, no, it isn't. Really depends on one's point of view.

2) USAPA officers not just failing to represent, but purposely trying to harm 1/3 the pilot group.

Actually, if you are referring to the former AWA, you are now about 1/10 of the combined list with APA pilots.

APA will go to arbitration because the only thing we can offer is DOH integration. Its in our C&BLs. DOH puts 80% of our guys in the top half of the list. NEVER EVER going to happen.

But 75% of that 80% will be retired before any fences expire. APA knows that, and if the fences are very high and very durable (which USAPA will be more than willing to agree on), they have no worries about DOH. APA knows that, too.

The majority of this group are.

I was hoping no one at American would notice until after the merger (assuming it happens).

Yes, TJ, You're all right; the world's all wrong. I suspect you say that, or something similar, to the mirror constantly.

The only ruling the ninth made was not ripe. A joint contract makes the case ripe.

We do have an integrated list. It just could not be used until we had a joint contract.

Join contract joint list. Done deal.

Parker does not want separate ops or contracts. The APA pilots don't want separate ops or contracts.

Even setting aside that the TA in which the Nicolau lives will be specifically superseded by the MTA, do you think ANYONE other than your 10% really cares about AoL and their clever (because he is milking you) lawyer?

...Like I've said before, I don't think the NIC was fair, but DOH isn't any better....

Ah, I wish you had been in a leadership role at Wye River. Wiser words have not been spoken. Had AWA come off the "winning lottery ticket that they can't cash" (Scott Kirby), we wouldn't be in this mess. As is often said, a good arbitrated award is one where pretty much everybody is pissed off. The Cheshire Cat grins and "high fives" that predominated in PHX and LAS the day Nicolau released his abortion leads me to believe that it wasn't a fair list, and the west knows it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Thanks FA, right back at ya. I thought I already said I'm an 04' hire, guess not, there it is. I was holding a line prior to the merger and got knocked to reserve after. I'm not looking to upgrade on anybody's widebodies, I'd just like to have back what I had prior to the first merger (in more ways than one). Like I've said before, I don't think the NIC was fair, but DOH isn't any better. I would expect to be towards the bottom of any list, but to place AWA's senior captains below east US FOs I can't agree with. Oh, the little one stopped barfing and the big one started. Hopefully I'm not next. Have a good night.

Bean

P.S. To my knowledge DC is not a west pilot. I've heard east pilots talk like him on the jumpseat before, it is possible he's east.

It's not fair the FAA is requireing newly hired 121 pilots to be "captains" (a term of endearment I wish Pan Am wold have never introduced). But there you have it.

After a year they should be making what you make as a 1984 hire. Tell me why they shouldn't?

 

[nic4us]

When people resort to name calling and telling people they are stupid, they have lost the argument. Your character proceeds you. I have quite a few friends and acquaintances from the West both in the union and not affiliated with the union. They might not always agree with what I have to say, but none of them will tell you that I'm stupid. Quite the opposite. You are quite welcome for my service. I do my job for all the pilots of this airline. Including you.

We were having an argument?

I thought you were just telling me the way it is, cause your sources are rock solid and mine...well not so much!

 

[nic4us]

Nic4us,

We have sparred on things. We have agreed on things. But let me assure you of one thing. I know gunter better than you do. We have flown together. We have discussed things together. I can assure you of one thing. He is not an idiot and I would place anything he has to say ahead of you. You would be wise to STFU and listen.

I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but if standardized testing is any indicator, I am far from the dullest.

I can't STFU and listen, because it is my antagonizing him that gets the response to the post that contain the info you would like me to listen to! In other words if I were silent so would be Gunther.

And, I have listened and taken note.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Let's see, a case that has merit and lacks only ripeness and we will check off that box when we will offer a non-Nic SLI is not going to stop a merger with an injunction? If I were the APA and Parker, would I risk that possibility? No, I wouldn't.
And those AoL guys have been fighting from behind the 8 ball for all these years agains all of our dues and managed to keep out majority in check. I wouldn't put anything past them.

I'm just curious, but don't you guys read the MOU? The MOU resets the argument because of....the vote! If the MOU is voted in. If not, same ole, same ole.

APA submits its list, USAPA submits theirs.

They both take 90 days to come up with a solution and if they don't, they get three arbitrators and argue their positions before them. That in a nutshell is all their is.

If you have an issue with it if the MOU gets voted in take it up with the merger committee.

Better yet, go ask Harper. (Oh that's right, his law firm gets no more money.)

 

[nic4us]

At least you say, "I think" half a dozen times. Yes. We do get it. You apparently don't. Again. Anyone can sue. Anyone. But possession is 9/10ths of the law. AOL will not stop an 8 billion dollar merger from going through. AOL can and will sue. It is expected. Right now USAPA has more than 5 million in the bank. It will be more than 6 million by the time the merger takes place. US/AA had agreed to pay for the Merger and Seniority expenses of both unions. What do you think USAPA plans to do with that money? If you're a West pilot and you want to fight to the death, you better get your checkbook out. You will be fighting from behind the 8 ball.

Yep possession is 9/10ths and LCC is only in possession of one system seniority list.

I do not know what uscaba has planned for their $6 million bankroll of extorted money. My suggestion would be to refund to the 5000 LCC pilots a check for $1000 each before the APA becomes the surviving union and uses their newly acquired $6 million for purposes the LCC pilots may not like.

The West has no desire to fight to the death. We leave such dire BS to you east drama queens. But, AOL is funded, and we have more than one surprise for you idiots in our legal toolbox.

 

[nycbusdriver]

But, AOL is funded, and we have more than one surprise for you idiots in our legal toolbox.

Yawn

 

[Pi brat]

We'll be in arbitration so fast you won't believe it.

Maybe, but you don't know that. I never said that we wouldn't, what I said was that Gunter wasn't an idiot. That doesn't mean I agree with him on everything.

You haven't been around this board that long, at least with your screen name. Maybe you have been lurking, but if so have you noticed how much nic4us has been wrong? He predicted gazzillions in damages. He doesn't know what scab means. In general, he is an ass. Gunter has been right about many more things than nic has.

 

[Pi brat]

I am home grown and I honestly don't care what you think. I've put up legitimate arguments and have gotten nothing back that gives me any confidence that this is going to go our way. Nothing, and I mean nothing, ever goes our way and this won't be any different. Why don't you go back to lurking.

Home grown what? No, I think I will stick around a while just to irritate you.

 

[Pi brat]

How do we know you're not an idiot?

Bean

Aw Bean, that hurts.

 

[Pi brat]

Oh look Pi, he's disagreeing too. Maybe he's not original AAA either.

Too? I see nothing in his post where he is calling Gunter an idiot. Why don't you keep your players straight?

 

[nevergiveup]

I ain't the sharpest tool in the shed, but if standardized testing is any indicator, I am far from the dullest.

I can't STFU and listen, because it is my antagonizing him that gets the response to the post that contain the info you would like me to listen to! In other words if I were silent so would be Gunther.

And, I have listened and taken note.

It is rare to see you post without calling someone a scab. It helps Mr. Webster chuckle!

 

[nevergiveup]

Yep possession is 9/10ths and LCC is only in possession of one system seniority list.

I do not know what uscaba has planned for their $6 million bankroll of extorted money. My suggestion would be to refund to the 5000 LCC pilots a check for $1000 each before the APA becomes the surviving union and uses their newly acquired $6 million for purposes the LCC pilots may not like.

The West has no desire to fight to the death. We leave such dire BS to you east drama queens. But, AOL is funded, and we have more than one surprise for you idiots in our legal toolbox.

You had the chance to make NIC happen with a fence. You rolled the dice and said, "No." The fence would almost be up and you would have this airline by the private parts. A bird in the hand....