Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[doh nogo]

This cost ALL of us. But especially east pilots. Karma is a #### and she is going to slap you all.

If the Nicolau is dead as many here have crowed about why the confusion? Why not a bold statement that the Nicolau will not be used and there will only be one DOH passed to the APA and they will accept it?

BINGO! The nic is alive and well. Even the NAC is still talking about it. Let the rest of them live in denial until the MOU passes and karma smacks them hard in their smug faces.

Until then, I'll continue to sit back and enjoy all the east on east porn on this forum. They are coming apart at the seams!

Pass the popcorn please...

 

[luvthe9]

Gentlemen:


I was forwarded a copy of your blast email regarding your attempt to recall the CLT Reps and was stunned by the amount of misinformation that your group is spreading to the CLT pilots.


About a month ago I was passing through the CLT terminal and was approached by Dennis Rawls about this recall attempt and was asked by Dennis to support it. Obviously, Dennis didn’t know who I was so I asked him some very basic questions regarding the first MOU that he was basing the recall on. His only response to these simple questions was “well I didn’t read the whole thing, just parts of it”. Give me a f&_*#@g break! It was only seven pages long and not a 1200 page legal document!!! And that’s what you guys are basing your recall on???? Because you didn't get a chance to vote on it and your “feelings were hurt”?[background=transparent]

[/background]
The whole lot of you are an embarrassment to this pilot group and you need to pull your heads out of your arses and grow some nuts for a change!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Gentlemen:


I was forwarded a copy of your blast email regarding your attempt to recall the CLT Reps and was stunned by the amount of misinformation that your group is spreading to the CLT pilots.


About a month ago I was passing through the CLT terminal and was approached by Dennis Rawls about this recall attempt and was asked by Dennis to support it. Obviously, Dennis didn’t know who I was so I asked him some very basic questions regarding the first MOU that he was basing the recall on. His only response to these simple questions was “well I didn’t read the whole thing, just parts of it”. Give me a f&_*#@g break! It was only seven pages long and not a 1200 page legal document!!! And that’s what you guys are basing your recall on???? Because you didn't get a chance to vote on it and your “feelings were hurt”?


The whole lot of you are an embarrassment to this pilot group and you need to pull your heads out of your arses and grow some nuts for a change!

Obviously his recruitment was based on emotion and sticking it to the reps, guess he voted as soon as those polls opened!

 

[767jetz]

What a bunch of psycho's :blink:

Yup. Nothing's changed since 2000. Good luck to you guys at AA.

 

[dca319]

I do agree that it is a great unknown. APA is not going to go along with DOH, and USAPA is obligated by its own C&B-Ls to stick to that (as you point out.) So, it is doubtful that there will be a negotiated list. USAPA can go to the McC-B board with DOH, and then sit down and keep their mouths shut (because there is not much else they can say and remain within their own rules.) The arbitrators will say DOH is a non-starter (as did Nicolau) and will proceed with slotting. We can only hope it is better than Nic (very likely, IMHO) and the C&Rs are manageable, fair and lengthy (unlikely.) It is unlikely that the arbitration panel will recognize the current separation of the US east and west, and they will probably have no restrictions in place for us East vs. west, i.e. all bases and equipment on the US east and west will open up for bidding by all former east and west pilots. The panel will likely place restrictions at the company behest to wait until 2014 and the PBS system is in place, but the fences (if any) will only keep the AA pilots from the US pilots, and vice versa.

1. Pilot data will be exchanged between the two unions. I say data because calling it a list is irrelevant. The order in which the pilots are shown on the list won't matter in the exchange. Each party is free to reorder each other's list as they deem appropriate.

2. Once USAPA has the APA's list, it will take those pilots and integrate them into our list per our C&BL's. This is the list that counts.

3. APA will take our data and integrate it with their list. They most definitely will not use DOH and will instead slot our pilots with their pilots. IMHO, the APA, in order to avoid potential litigation from the west, will integrate their list with our pilots ordered per the Nicolau list.

4. Each side will then exchange their "offers" of integration which won't even be close. I don't see even a small chance of negotiations between the respective parties and this will immediately move to the arbitrators.

5. Each side will argue the merits of their logic for ordering their respective lists to the arbitrators.

6. Arbitrators pick a list or formulate a new one based on the arguments they heard.

Looking at our side, we've argued DOH once before and you can see how that turned out. DOH, as a method, is dead and we won't get anything anywhere near it.
The APA, on the other hand, will proffer a list that uses a prevailing method of integration, doesn't risk any litigation from the west, and avoids the inevitable injunction that would happen if AoL intervened.
And, finally, the arbitrators don't set a precedence of undercutting another arbitrators work.
For our pilots to think that the Nicolau award is dead simply because we won't use it is naive. The APA can use it and I think they will because of the litigation. Their suit lost on ripeness, not merit, and they've proven they have a case. And USAPA escapes any DFR suits because it still complied with DOH when they submitted our list to the APA.
If you think the Nicolau is dead then you're in for a shock. Its going to show its head.

 

[dca319]

Obviously his recruitment was based on emotion and sticking it to the reps, guess he voted as soon as those polls opened!

Seems to be our MO.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Looking at our side, we've argued DOH once before and you can see how that turned out. DOH, as a method, is dead and we won't get anything anywhere near it.
The APA, on the other hand, will proffer a list that uses a prevailing method of integration, doesn't risk any litigation from the west, and avoids the inevitable injunction that would happen if AoL intervened.
And, finally, the arbitrators don't set a precedence of undercutting another arbitrators work.
For our pilots to think that the Nicolau award is dead simply because we won't use it is naive. The APA can use it and I think they will because of the litigation. Their suit lost on ripeness, not merit, and they've proven they have a case. And USAPA escapes any DFR suits because it still complied with DOH when they submitted our list to the APA.
If you think the Nicolau is dead then you're in for a shock. Its going to show its head.

Undercutting an arbitrator is one thing, undercutting the 9th circuit is another, ! No JCBA no integrated USAPA list, a 3 way deal, but at this point my guess AA standalone, hostlie usairways take over and fragmentation, seperate contracts easy to do!

 

[Zone5]

1. Pilot data will be exchanged between the two unions. I say data because calling it a list is irrelevant. The order in which the pilots are shown on the list won't matter in the exchange. Each party is free to reorder each other's list as they deem appropriate.

2. Once USAPA has the APA's list, it will take those pilots and integrate them into our list per our C&BL's. This is the list that counts.

3. APA will take our data and integrate it with their list. They most definitely will not use DOH and will instead slot our pilots with their pilots. IMHO, the APA, in order to avoid potential litigation from the west, will integrate their list with our pilots ordered per the Nicolau list.

4. Each side will then exchange their "offers" of integration which won't even be close. I don't see even a small chance of negotiations between the respective parties and this will immediately move to the arbitrators.

5. Each side will argue the merits of their logic for ordering their respective lists to the arbitrators.

6. Arbitrators pick a list or formulate a new one based on the arguments they heard.

Looking at our side, we've argued DOH once before and you can see how that turned out. DOH, as a method, is dead and we won't get anything anywhere near it.
The APA, on the other hand, will proffer a list that uses a prevailing method of integration, doesn't risk any litigation from the west, and avoids the inevitable injunction that would happen if AoL intervened.
And, finally, the arbitrators don't set a precedence of undercutting another arbitrators work.
For our pilots to think that the Nicolau award is dead simply because we won't use it is naive. The APA can use it and I think they will because of the litigation. Their suit lost on ripeness, not merit, and they've proven they have a case. And USAPA escapes any DFR suits because it still complied with DOH when they submitted our list to the APA.
If you think the Nicolau is dead then you're in for a shock. Its going to show its head.

WOW!, that's quite a large "Crystal Ball" you've got there! Did you bring that with you from PHX? More importantly, can you pick stocks or lottery numbers with it? Maybe it's just a little "out of focus", what with being in such close proximity to all those lobbyists and politicians there in DCA?!


seajay

 

[dca319]

WOW!, that's quite a large "Crystal Ball" you've got there! Did you bring that with you from PHX? More importantly, can you pick stocks or lottery numbers with it? Maybe it's just a little "out of focus", what with being in such close proximity to all those lobbyists and politicians there in DCA?!


seajay

Just an "IMHO" with input from the APA guys when they were in CLT. Feel free to parse the parts you don't agree with and we can go from there.

 

[dca319]

Undercutting an arbitrator is one thing, undercutting the 9th circuit is another, ! No JCBA no integrated USAPA list, a 3 way deal, but at this point my guess AA standalone, hostlie usairways take over and fragmentation, seperate contracts easy to do!

I thought you were under the impression the PHX would be sold?

 

[dca319]

Undercutting an arbitrator is one thing, undercutting the 9th circuit is another, ! No JCBA no integrated USAPA list, a 3 way deal, but at this point my guess AA standalone, hostlie usairways take over and fragmentation, seperate contracts easy to do!

I'd like to know why you think the 9th is being undercut.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I'd like to know how the 9th is being undercut.

AS JUDGE SIVER STATED, Free to negotiate, as the 9th said, Wake to vacate his award as his courtroom is null and void, a mute point, AA standalone, fragmentation and avoidance of AA and AOL litigation! We have no joint list ! Plus AA avoids all pension liability issues concerning DUI DOUG and company that PIC is a big question mark for AA moving forward in a DUI DOUG run AA, why do you think "GIVE IT AWAY GARY" wants it done! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Just an "IMHO" with input from the APA guys when they were in CLT. Feel free to parse the parts you don't agree with and we can go from there.

I was there, they could care less!

 

[dca319]

AS JUDGE SIVER STATED, Free to negotiate, as the 9th said, Wake to vacate his award as his courtroom is null and void, a mute point, AA standalone, fragmentation and avoidance of AA and AOL litigation! We have no joint list !

Reread my post. USAPA didn't use the Nicolau in their SLI proffer but the APA did. AND the Nicolau was never null and void. If it was, the company would never be in court right now trying to get a ruling on not using it. Where do you get this from?

 

[dca319]

I was there, they could care less!

Who could care less?