Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Aren't you ever going to stop being an a$$? B)

You'll be Ok without me. The sooner you accept that the sooner you'll be able to start your new life. Hugs. :wub:

 

[PullUp]

Thank you NYC for posting the rates. So some simple math and simple deduction. If CoC is triggered and if we prevail in a grievance, multiply the applicable rate by more than one but less than two football seasons. Seniority will be determined NOT by a pending grievance, but by actual payrates and we will submit our LOA93/C2004 figures.

Then we'll say to all the 190 drivers - watch out for that bus.

If management thinks we will win this grievance, is there any possibility they could accelerate the timeline to just one football season?

Does anyone else remember Parity + 1% and what a fine summer that was?

You know, all the 190 captains can hold other positions....and would be better off doing so under a CoC rate increase. Leave the left seat to new hires who would appreciate the current payscale.
Cheers.

 

[dca319]

Well..It's certainly comforting that we might "eventually" see it...and exactly what is it again that the "eventual" check's-in-the mail would be specifically based on? Is there even any reasonable basis on which each pilot could realistically predict those earnings, much less when they'd ever see them arrive? What's the contractual penalty to the company if they just sit on it forever? Oh well. I suppose any such trivial concerns as precise contractual terms should be of no worries to anyone I guess.

All must vote as they best see fit. A bit of thought's strongly suggested before doing so.

If this merger goes through, we get retro - end of story. There is no gray area, no question. The counter starts 2/8 and continues until ED and a check is cut. If the merger doesn't happen (which is highly doubtful at this point) then we're status quo.
Cheer up man, that light at the end of the tunnel is actually the money train this time if you're smart enough to get on board.

 

[nycbusdriver]

The last eight years don't just disappear like they never happened.

Watch them disappear the second the ink goes on the MTA.

The Nicolau lived in the TA, and it disappears along with the Nic once the MTA is signed. Do you not think that AA legal, US legal and consulting lawyers with more expertise have considered your position long before this MOU was crafted?

The Nicolau is soon to be toast. USAPA not long thereafter. AA, APA, LCC and the UCC are going into this with eyes wide open and have found your position at best, negligible, and more likely, irrelevant. Get out your checkbooks, though. We know how much you Spartans, knights, dire wolves, etc. just love to part company with your money in the quest for the impossible dream.

Have at it, Bucko! I was sad that your circus might leave town. Now, I realize you clowns are just moving your tents into the swamp before you continue your comedy show.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Leave the left seat to new hires who would appreciate the current payscale.

...and the PIC Part 121 jet time so they can get a job at DAL or UAL or, even better yet, SWA or JetBlue!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Boy, Parker has been doing crew news since 2001. He has said a lot of things and made a lot of promises. Before the merger he used to be honest and you could count on what he said. After the merger the lies got bigger and bolder.

One of the reasons the west confronts Parker is because he and we know he is lying. He hates to be called out on his lies and he hates when you question his integrity. He hates to be the bad guy. Thus the reason for his lack of balls in just telling the east it is the Nicolau list.

Parker used to tell us that we were fine stand alone. Go back and watch the videos. He did not start saying the west would go BK until we started demanding our fair share of the merger.

Why Parker furloughed 10% of the west but only 5% of the east. Why the west took 85% of the block hour violation. Why ALL the 190's have gone to the east yet the west should be flying 1/3 of those. Why the east flt. ops changed the ACARS to benefit the east and harm the west.

Every time we point out the unfair treatment Parker tells you that the west was going BK and we are just lucky to have a job. But when he tells you that Us Airways would liquidate you don't believe him. Well if us airways liquidated ALL of you would have been out of a job 100% not the 30% he threatened the west with.

So you got 100% of your jobs and ALL the benefits, the west maybe saved 30% of the jobs and ZERO benefits.

Listen to what Parker has to say when he hands the american pilots all the benefits of this merger just because they are the majority and have the two most profitable hubs ORD and DFW.

Remember what Parker said? If only he had ORD and DFW he could make money. Well he used to tell us that if only he had east coast hubs he could pay us like other airlines.

Parker is a liar and will tell you anything so he does not have to pay. You east pilots are about to find out how the minority is treated and you will not have east pilots in the flight op department to protect you anymore. Flying will be moved to benefit the majority.

Eight years of this crap. Like I said Karma is a #### and she is coming for the east.

Explains the hostility.

 

[end_of_alpa]

The west has been slapped for 8 years. It is the east that is finally going to get what you deserve.

Funny you mention Hoffa. PS used to work for Hoffa. Does that tell you anything?

My point.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I do agree that it is a great unknown. APA is not going to go along with DOH, and USAPA is obligated by its own C&B-Ls to stick to that (as you point out.) So, it is doubtful that there will be a negotiated list. USAPA can go to the McC-B board with DOH, and then sit down and keep their mouths shut (because there is not much else they can say and remain within their own rules.) The arbitrators will say DOH is a non-starter (as did Nicolau) and will proceed with slotting. We can only hope it is better than Nic (very likely, IMHO) and the C&Rs are manageable, fair and lengthy (unlikely.) It is unlikely that the arbitration panel will recognize the current separation of the US east and west, and they will probably have no restrictions in place for us East vs. west, i.e. all bases and equipment on the US east and west will open up for bidding by all former east and west pilots. The panel will likely place restrictions at the company behest to wait until 2014 and the PBS system is in place, but the fences (if any) will only keep the AA pilots from the US pilots, and vice versa.

Carrot: DOH is the discussion we need to have in the 90 day window. Let them know that if we go to arbitration, then the gloves come off and they get.....

The STICK: We make the AWA argument that we were in better shape than APA and should go above them and let the arbitrators move from there.

Ratio/slotting/longevity means whatever the other side presents and the arbitrators sort the wheat from the chaff.

MC....HAMMER!

 

[Al Legheny]

Watch them disappear the second the ink goes on the MTA.

The Nicolau lived in the TA, and it disappears along with the Nic once the MTA is signed. Do you not think that AA legal, US legal and consulting lawyers with more expertise have considered your position long before this MOU was crafted?

The Nicolau is soon to be toast. USAPA not long thereafter. AA, APA, LCC and the UCC are going into this with eyes wide open and have found your position at best, negligible, and more likely, irrelevant. Get out your checkbooks, though. We know how much you Spartans, knights, dire wolves, etc. just love to part company with your money in the quest for the impossible dream.

Have at it, Bucko! I was sad that your circus might leave town. Now, I realize you clowns are just moving your tents into the swamp before you continue your comedy show.

In the words of that famous expert witness, Mss. Mona Lisa Vitto, "It's dead -on balls accurate." I believe this to be an accruate analysis of the MTA vs. the old Transition Agreement.

(You have to watch the movie closely, she was not on the stand for that remark, she was arguing with Vincint Gambini in the hotel room, in a cute little PJ's....)

 

[luvthe9]

This letter is from CLT Rep Steve Crimi to the USAPA Officers. There is no doubt that Gary Hummel, Steve Bradford and Rob Streble are helping the Recall effort to eliminate the opposition.

After the fiasco of the MOU and the secret negotiations that got us this abomination and now the sales job to sell this abomination to us, our USAPA Officers with the exception of Steve Smyser are adding more insult to it by getting rid of the people that made it somewhat palatable.

It may be time we begin to take back our dignity and futures by recalling those 3 officers. I know many people are thinking the same thing because I am hearing from them. If the rest of our negotiations go as badly as this has, we are in a world of trouble.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE CLT IN OFFICE! If we lose there, getting new reps in PHL won't mean anything.

[background=transparent]Hello Officers and thank you again for meddling in the recall attempt of the CLT Representatives. [/background]

I've been certain that some Officers have had their fingerprints all over the recall for a while but this is getting comical.

Here we have 5 well respected PIC committee members who have written the membership in part to share that the Officers have created problems for their committee and you write the membership and essentially call these well respected pilots liars. Amazing.

Speaking of lying...Gary and Steve B., do you remember that time Steve told the BPR in front of 30 or so pilots that he had "just talked to Peter Bell" about the PIC budget audit report and that Peter said "the report wasn't ready?" Remember? It was when you were both interrupting Bill McKee and I as we tried to add the audit report to the agenda. Gosh, but it sure seemed like you were both trying to prevent the report from being given to the BPR. Very odd for two fiduciaries of the union I was thinking. What made it really odd was the fact that I knew the report was ready and here was the Vice President of the union telling everyone that he had "just talked" to Peter Bell and the "report wasn't ready". Phew, do you remember how mad Gary got when Peter Bell showed up two days later and I asked him in front of everyone when the report had actually been completed and Peter replied several days ago? Wow, Gary sure blew up at me. Accused me of "asking a question to make it appear that you two were lying". Wow again! To the casual observer it sure appeared you really, really didn't want Peter Bell to report on his audit of the Secretary-Treasurer's handling of the PIC budget, and it sure appeared that you weren't telling the truth. That's probably just an appearance though since you are both such straight-shooters.

You know how that story also appears? It appears that it is a great example of one of the "roadblocks" the PIC committee commented on in their letter. I'm sure the appearance of you attempting to prevent the audit report from being given to the BPR had nothing to do with the fact that Peter Bell had found over $400,000 of our pilots dues money had been "misplaced" for lack of a better term...AWOL...Missing...Nada...gone with the wind! Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with that little tidbit, which explains why the Officer's reported to the membership on November 14th, that "two separate and independent accounting firms have now examined our financial records and have found them to be problem free". I mean, that's great news of course. I realize that a lot of people might think that misplacing $461,000 + of our members money problematic but I'm glad you were able to assure the pilots that it was not.

Oh, by the way, when someone lies, it often has the appearance (really getting to like that word..."appears") of a lie. Strange how that works isn't it? Now, I'm certainly not accusing you two of lying, only mentioning it since we are sort of on the subject. Hey, maybe you could have our General Counsel write a memorandum about lying so everyone knows what to look for...just a thought (this little quip is in reference to a memorandum the President had our General Counsel draft reminding the BPR that we can't tell our pilots what went on during the closed BPR meetings - even though the NDA did not restrict us from doing so). Gee, I wonder why the President and 6 members of the BPR don't want the pilots to know what took place behind closed doors? ...think, think, think....Well, I digress, and anyway if I travel down that road I'll be writing for hours.

On a more serious note...for months now, 5 members of the BPR have done everything possible to show the pilots a unified front, keeping hush the insanity (my opinion) we are witnessing under the present leadership. Up until now, I firmly believed that was in our pilots best interests. However, I personally believe we have reached the point of diminishing returns...a tipping point if you will. 3 of you are out of control in my opinion and are overtly harming this pilot group and I for one have had just about enough of your BS
Steve Smyser...you may want to distance yourself from the other 3 Officers because you are becoming guilty by association.

Steve Crimi
Line Pilot

P.S. In no way shape or form is this confidential. Share it with the world if you desire.

 

[cleardirect]

Watch them disappear the second the ink goes on the MTA.

The Nicolau lived in the TA, and it disappears along with the Nic once the MTA is signed. Do you not think that AA legal, US legal and consulting lawyers with more expertise have considered your position long before this MOU was crafted?

The Nicolau is soon to be toast. USAPA not long thereafter. AA, APA, LCC and the UCC are going into this with eyes wide open and have found your position at best, negligible, and more likely, irrelevant. Get out your checkbooks, though. We know how much you Spartans, knights, dire wolves, etc. just love to part company with your money in the quest for the impossible dream.

Have at it, Bucko! I was sad that your circus might leave town. Now, I realize you clowns are just moving your tents into the swamp before you continue your comedy show.

If what you say is true. Why is PS dancing around the issue? Why would he not just come out and say the Nicolau is dead? The west would vote no the majority of east would vote yes. Done deal.


Either way the new pay rates make it easy to pay for more litigation if needed. But with usapa gone the opposition to the Nicolau goes away.

If the east would like to fund litigation have at it. You will also have a raise to fund your fight.

 

[Metroyet]

This letter is from CLT Rep Steve Crimi to the USAPA Officers. There is no doubt that Gary Hummel, Steve Bradford and Rob Streble are helping the Recall effort to eliminate the opposition.

After the fiasco of the MOU and the secret negotiations that got us this abomination and now the sales job to sell this abomination to us, our USAPA Officers with the exception of Steve Smyser are adding more insult to it by getting rid of the people that made it somewhat palatable.

It may be time we begin to take back our dignity and futures by recalling those 3 officers. I know many people are thinking the same thing because I am hearing from them. If the rest of our negotiations go as badly as this has, we are in a world of trouble.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE CLT IN OFFICE! If we lose there, getting new reps in PHL won't mean anything.

[font="Arial][size="3"][background=transparent]Hello Officers and thank you again for meddling in the recall attempt of the CLT Representatives. [/background][/size][/font]

I've been certain that some Officers have had their fingerprints all over the recall for a while but this is getting comical.

Here we have 5 well respected PIC committee members who have written the membership in part to share that the Officers have created problems for their committee and you write the membership and essentially call these well respected pilots liars. Amazing.

Speaking of lying...Gary and Steve B., do you remember that time Steve told the BPR in front of 30 or so pilots that he had "just talked to Peter Bell" about the PIC budget audit report and that Peter said "the report wasn't ready?" Remember? It was when you were both interrupting Bill McKee and I as we tried to add the audit report to the agenda. Gosh, but it sure seemed like you were both trying to prevent the report from being given to the BPR. Very odd for two fiduciaries of the union I was thinking. What made it really odd was the fact that I knew the report was ready and here was the Vice President of the union telling everyone that he had "just talked" to Peter Bell and the "report wasn't ready". Phew, do you remember how mad Gary got when Peter Bell showed up two days later and I asked him in front of everyone when the report had actually been completed and Peter replied several days ago? Wow, Gary sure blew up at me. Accused me of "asking a question to make it appear that you two were lying". Wow again! To the casual observer it sure appeared you really, really didn't want Peter Bell to report on his audit of the Secretary-Treasurer's handling of the PIC budget, and it sure appeared that you weren't telling the truth. That's probably just an appearance though since you are both such straight-shooters.

You know how that story also appears? It appears that it is a great example of one of the "roadblocks" the PIC committee commented on in their letter. I'm sure the appearance of you attempting to prevent the audit report from being given to the BPR had nothing to do with the fact that Peter Bell had found over $400,000 of our pilots dues money had been "misplaced" for lack of a better term...AWOL...Missing...Nada...gone with the wind! Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with that little tidbit, which explains why the Officer's reported to the membership on November 14th, that "two separate and independent accounting firms have now examined our financial records and have found them to be problem free". I mean, that's great news of course. I realize that a lot of people might think that misplacing $461,000 + of our members money problematic but I'm glad you were able to assure the pilots that it was not.

Oh, by the way, when someone lies, it often has the appearance (really getting to like that word..."appears") of a lie. Strange how that works isn't it? Now, I'm certainly not accusing you two of lying, only mentioning it since we are sort of on the subject. Hey, maybe you could have our General Counsel write a memorandum about lying so everyone knows what to look for...just a thought (this little quip is in reference to a memorandum the President had our General Counsel draft reminding the BPR that we can't tell our pilots what went on during the closed BPR meetings - even though the NDA did not restrict us from doing so). Gee, I wonder why the President and 6 members of the BPR don't want the pilots to know what took place behind closed doors? ...think, think, think....Well, I digress, and anyway if I travel down that road I'll be writing for hours.

On a more serious note...for months now, 5 members of the BPR have done everything possible to show the pilots a unified front, keeping hush the insanity (my opinion) we are witnessing under the present leadership. Up until now, I firmly believed that was in our pilots best interests. However, I personally believe we have reached the point of diminishing returns...a tipping point if you will. 3 of you are out of control in my opinion and are overtly harming this pilot group and I for one have had just about enough of your BS
Steve Smyser...you may want to distance yourself from the other 3 Officers because you are becoming guilty by association.

Steve Crimi
Line Pilot

P.S. In no way shape or form is this confidential. Share it with the world if you desire.

When a scab speaks, does anyone care?

 

[cleardirect]

This letter is from CLT Rep Steve Crimi to the USAPA Officers. There is no doubt that Gary Hummel, Steve Bradford and Rob Streble are helping the Recall effort to eliminate the opposition.

After the fiasco of the MOU and the secret negotiations that got us this abomination and now the sales job to sell this abomination to us, our USAPA Officers with the exception of Steve Smyser are adding more insult to it by getting rid of the people that made it somewhat palatable.

It may be time we begin to take back our dignity and futures by recalling those 3 officers. I know many people are thinking the same thing because I am hearing from them. If the rest of our negotiations go as badly as this has, we are in a world of trouble.

WE NEED TO KEEP THE CLT IN OFFICE! If we lose there, getting new reps in PHL won't mean anything.

[background=transparent]Hello Officers and thank you again for meddling in the recall attempt of the CLT Representatives. [/background]

I've been certain that some Officers have had their fingerprints all over the recall for a while but this is getting comical.

Here we have 5 well respected PIC committee members who have written the membership in part to share that the Officers have created problems for their committee and you write the membership and essentially call these well respected pilots liars. Amazing.

Speaking of lying...Gary and Steve B., do you remember that time Steve told the BPR in front of 30 or so pilots that he had "just talked to Peter Bell" about the PIC budget audit report and that Peter said "the report wasn't ready?" Remember? It was when you were both interrupting Bill McKee and I as we tried to add the audit report to the agenda. Gosh, but it sure seemed like you were both trying to prevent the report from being given to the BPR. Very odd for two fiduciaries of the union I was thinking. What made it really odd was the fact that I knew the report was ready and here was the Vice President of the union telling everyone that he had "just talked" to Peter Bell and the "report wasn't ready". Phew, do you remember how mad Gary got when Peter Bell showed up two days later and I asked him in front of everyone when the report had actually been completed and Peter replied several days ago? Wow, Gary sure blew up at me. Accused me of "asking a question to make it appear that you two were lying". Wow again! To the casual observer it sure appeared you really, really didn't want Peter Bell to report on his audit of the Secretary-Treasurer's handling of the PIC budget, and it sure appeared that you weren't telling the truth. That's probably just an appearance though since you are both such straight-shooters.

You know how that story also appears? It appears that it is a great example of one of the "roadblocks" the PIC committee commented on in their letter. I'm sure the appearance of you attempting to prevent the audit report from being given to the BPR had nothing to do with the fact that Peter Bell had found over $400,000 of our pilots dues money had been "misplaced" for lack of a better term...AWOL...Missing...Nada...gone with the wind! Yeah, I'm sure it had nothing to do with that little tidbit, which explains why the Officer's reported to the membership on November 14th, that "two separate and independent accounting firms have now examined our financial records and have found them to be problem free". I mean, that's great news of course. I realize that a lot of people might think that misplacing $461,000 + of our members money problematic but I'm glad you were able to assure the pilots that it was not.

Oh, by the way, when someone lies, it often has the appearance (really getting to like that word..."appears") of a lie. Strange how that works isn't it? Now, I'm certainly not accusing you two of lying, only mentioning it since we are sort of on the subject. Hey, maybe you could have our General Counsel write a memorandum about lying so everyone knows what to look for...just a thought (this little quip is in reference to a memorandum the President had our General Counsel draft reminding the BPR that we can't tell our pilots what went on during the closed BPR meetings - even though the NDA did not restrict us from doing so). Gee, I wonder why the President and 6 members of the BPR don't want the pilots to know what took place behind closed doors? ...think, think, think....Well, I digress, and anyway if I travel down that road I'll be writing for hours.

On a more serious note...for months now, 5 members of the BPR have done everything possible to show the pilots a unified front, keeping hush the insanity (my opinion) we are witnessing under the present leadership. Up until now, I firmly believed that was in our pilots best interests. However, I personally believe we have reached the point of diminishing returns...a tipping point if you will. 3 of you are out of control in my opinion and are overtly harming this pilot group and I for one have had just about enough of your BS
Steve Smyser...you may want to distance yourself from the other 3 Officers because you are becoming guilty by association.

Steve Crimi
Line Pilot

P.S. In no way shape or form is this confidential. Share it with the world if you desire.

What a hypocrite.

When the PHX reps were ringing the alarm that Mike Cleary was out of control it was Crimi that told them to shut up because the majority rules and the president is the total and complete leader of this organization.

What a child, crying when he does not get his way.

If there was $400,000 really missing where was the alarm when the report was published? Crimi said nothing at the time. Only now when his job as a rep is threatened does he complain. You have to ask yourself why is Crimi fighting so hard to stay a rep? Sounds a lot like an ALPA rep staying on the gravy train.

 

[AAviator]

What a bunch of psycho's :blink:

 

[cleardirect]

Watch them disappear the second the ink goes on the MTA.

The Nicolau lived in the TA, and it disappears along with the Nic once the MTA is signed. Do you not think that AA legal, US legal and consulting lawyers with more expertise have considered your position long before this MOU was crafted?

The Nicolau is soon to be toast. USAPA not long thereafter. AA, APA, LCC and the UCC are going into this with eyes wide open and have found your position at best, negligible, and more likely, irrelevant. Get out your checkbooks, though. We know how much you Spartans, knights, dire wolves, etc. just love to part company with your money in the quest for the impossible dream.

Have at it, Bucko! I was sad that your circus might leave town. Now, I realize you clowns are just moving your tents into the swamp before you continue your comedy show.

If usapa tries and make the argument that the MOU kills the Nicolau with any court or arbitrator.

Exhibit #1 from the west will be official usapa comminication.

The MOU is completely neutral with respect to the Nicolau Award. In fact, Paragraph 10.h of the MOU says explicitly that neither the MOU nor the JCBA “shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways” other than through the McCaskill-Bond process. So, no East pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award and no West pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award

If the union lied to the pilots in order to harm a segment of the pilots they represent. Oh that would be an easy DFR. No ripeness issues.

Just unfair treatment.