Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

This is one of the biggest snow jobs we have had since LOA93our leadership is so desperate to get us to vote for this POS MOU maybe if I was getting what they were I would, todays letter makes it more evident that Hummel and company are feeding us a load of crap. I am really suprised the recall of Hummel and Streble has not started.

 

[luvthe9]

Does anyone remember "B" scale?

Sure we are all going to be on it soon, 32 yrs. and looking forward to that 190.

 

[EastUS1]

BTW MM, in the immediate scheme of things, I would say the MOU wil have considerably more impact on our lives than the Magna Carta.

You're just joking for effect here...umm...aren't you? Merely the Magna Carta? Why stop there? How about the Constitution of the United States? Wow!....This MOU must be something really grand indeed!

 

[end_of_alpa]

NO! The NAC does not control document the BPR does.

To your second point. You are now beginning to understand that the east did not win at the ninth. They put us all in a no win situation. That as long as usapa refused to accept the arbitrated list usapa was never going to get a contract on their own. Judge silver put the bow on the ninth's bad decision as she stated in open court that she thought it was a bad ruling. That without a LUP usapa was locked into the Nicolau.

You are not getting a warm fuzzy. To damn bad, that is the position that the east pilots put us all in because of your unreasonable refusal to accept binding arbitration results. The MOU sucks but that is the best we are going to get because of you east pilots.

This cost ALL of us. But especially east pilots. Karma is a #### and she is going to slap you all.

You are concerned because the lawyer that east pilots hired is confessed or is being confusing. Seham was confused about he law so is PS. If the Nicolau is dead as many here have crowed about why the confusion? Why not a bold statement that the Nicolau will not be used and there will only be one DOH passed to the APA and they will accept it?

Yes. We all want to know what Pat is going to propose since he won't say. It's about the lawyers again and not the pilots. Why do you think workers are deserting unions in droves?

Bromka, Hoffa, Moak and Hummel are four main reasons that come to mind.

By the way, for every action there is an equal an opposite reaction, so be mindful of the rebound from that B$$$H slap!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I just read an article where the regionals may have more maneuverability in the new market than the new "big three". Parker has opinions and Parker has facts. I would agree with you for the most part but like all arguments, you weigh the message with the messenger. If you look at last year, I would say the proof is in the pudding. If Parker looks at last year, he has to explain why we get the Kirby proposal, if any seniority issue is resolved first.

Who knows?

Regardless of any facts, at least at a crew news, Parker will have an answer. I'm just thinking outloud about what I imagine his answer will be, should anyone try to put him on the spot after a merger, should it occur. So far, the east is much better at not trying to do that than the west is.

 

[nycbusdriver]

See MM, that's the difference between you and I. I haven't voted yet. I'm stll asking questions and talking to people and researching the archives for more info. Some, such as yourself, made their minds up before the polls were even open. They made their decisions based partly on emotion - animosity against present union leadership, or management, or just plain 'rage against the machine'. If I'm a fence sitter, then is it fair to call you a trigger finger? Good Luck to you as well.

Oh, almost forgot. I said "presentation' not 'the presentation" as in how the brochure looks. Grammar is important. It's the difference between 'I can see you're nuts' and "I can see your nuts' .

It doesn't really matter if someone voted the second the polls opened and had not read any of the material. It's not like civil elections where once cast, your vote is "in stone." As more and more info and analysis comes in, this fence sitter has already changed the vote once, and will likely go back to my original vote as I begin to see that CoC, even it an ideal situation where the company doesn't challenge it, will likely be a wash financially. And, if they challenge CoC, the gamble is then huge that we would prevail.

I still have real problems with the the vague language. Obviously the APA does not know Team Tempe the way we do. Then again, I don't know Horton et al. the way they do. But they have already accepted such language; someone needs to point out our miles-long grievance list to them and let them know exactly why it got that long. Maybe we can get them to "see the light" before they move on to a JCBA where the APA will clearly be in control of the process.

 

[EastUS1]

If the Nicolau is dead as many here have crowed about why the confusion? Why not a bold statement that the Nicolau will not be used and there will only be one DOH passed to the APA and they will accept it?

I find those VERY reasonable questions clear. One can only wonder why no/none/zip/ZERO specific language directly addresses this ANYwhere in what's been written thus far....?

What IS the legal definition of lists "currently in effect"? "Currently in effect" for actual bidding and placement?...."Currently in effect" within the TA maze?....Or what...? It would require precious few additional phrases and terms to clarify this beyond reasonable uncertanity. Why wasn't that done? A handfull of typing strokes are too expensive these days..but glossy brochures aren't?

 

[EastUS1]

I still have real problems with the the vague language.

As all most certainly should.

"....someone needs to point out our miles-long grievance list to them and let them know exactly why it got that long." Indeed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Just wait till Parker puts a cork in that talk at crew news. "Looking into the future..,blah blah...things not so rosy...,blah blah...streamlined big three blah blah...if not for this merger...blah blah." This will be part 2, only the east will be included this time.

Well, that would be quite a bit of backpedaling on his part. He consistently comes to Crew Meetings saying that US can survive quite easily as a standalone carrier. There is always the caveat that as a standalone, US can never pay what UAL and DAL pay because those carriers have a huge revenue advantage due to size.

But, there is no question that he would probably do exactly as you describe now that this deal is so close that he can task the either the power, or the money, or both. His "standalone show," I think, was always a save-face maneuver in light of being rebuffed by DAL and UAL.

 

[Zone5]

"I don't see ONE THING ambiguous about this statement." Seriously? How about the part where "the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways” are clearly defined? Oh..nevermind...said concise definition is nowhere to be found. What's legally and define-ably "currently in effect" around here? West people argue that the Nic fits well within that definition. Why not some/ANY verbage that would have completely clarified the issue and removed all doubt and speculation?

It's pretty obvious to me why they made the SLI issue so "ambiguous", they left it out in an attempt to remove it from the MOU equation and that's why the MOU will probably pass, by a lot.


seajay

 

[fifidriver]

See MM, that's the difference between you and I... ...Grammar is important. It's the difference between 'I can see you're nuts' and "I can see your nuts' .

Priceless!!!

 

[EastUS1]

It's pretty obvious to me why they made the SLI issue so "ambiguous", they left it out in an attempt to remove it from the MOU equation .....

Yes. That's indeed pretty obvious, and clearly seems the case to me as well sir.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I'd guess the percentage the MOU will pass by is higher than the percentage chance of the merger even happening.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Second of all, it sounds like a merger with another carrier is the only eventual option necessary to get us out of the courts and into another contract. I'm not particularly getting a warm fuzzy about the faith it gives concerning the company's side of things.

It's called: "Manifest Destiny!" How could AA and US NOT merge? ;-)

As far as the courts, it will be nice to get out of that quagmire. The MOU (speaking of listS to be submitted by the east), I think, will give both east and west some of what they want as far as SLI. The east will get the do-over they have wanted, and it will be done with a list that is correct and looks very different than the snapshot that gave birth to the Nicolau abortion. The west will end up with the slotting they so dearly covet, and effectively get "Nic Two." That will piss off both the east and AA pilots who will end up with "junior" west pilots getting placed in front of them. But in the case of the east, the list will be a damned sight better than Nic One.

 

[fifidriver]

Ah! Nothing like submitting smug, smarmy pretentiousness in place of any argument that'd have the slightest chance of holding up in even a freshmen philosophy class ...

E-dude!!! C'mon!!!
Almost anyone else could post a reply like this. I just don't think that it is apropos coming from you. Somewhat like Iran or China complaining to the UN about Norway's women's rights. WTFO?