Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Piedmont1984]

....., you are correct about one thing , you are different! GOOD LUCK! MM

I resemble that remark.

 

[end_of_alpa]

That's understandable. Take the reserve system for example. A lot of work goes into a major change in scheduling and a timetable has to be set up for that. Same thing with the PB system and the new medical benefits. We get the big ticket items up front. Pay and additional DCP rates. The rest have much to do with moving all of us to the AA Green Book and that doesn't happen over night, nor would you want it to. There is no point in the company investing the money to make all of these changes until the judge states there is a merger.

Hence the ED. Only then will Fantasy Island become effective.

 

[end_of_alpa]

"The MOU is completely neutral with respect to the Nicolau Award. In fact, Paragraph 10.h of the MOU says explicitly that neither the MOU nor the JCBA “shall provide a basis for changing the seniority lists currently in effect at US Airways” other than through the McCaskill-Bond process. So, no East pilot should vote against the MOU because they fear that ratifying the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award and no West pilot should vote for the MOU because they believe the MOU will implement the Nicolau Award(.)"

So the West has a DOH list and the East has a DOH list. USAPA has a DOH list and a DOH C&B. In the first 90 days the argument should be this: DOH. However, the ONLY standard arbitration requires with the arbitrators is "fair and equitable". I would admonish the Merger committee (of one, Jess Pauley led by Gary Hummel) to play nice in 90 Days but threaten the gloves come off after that with the APA.

We don't need the merger, they need us!

 

[Phoenix]

Good point. How about the CoC proponents posting some hard numbers first?

Don't we pay dues? I thought our dues were to enable our union to exercise due fiduciary responsibility, which would include an objective valuation comparison of our current contract to any proposal of a replacement contract, would it not?

What are the dues being used for, if not what you just asked for? Why?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Don't we pay dues? I thought our dues were to enable our union to exercise due fiduciary responsibility, which would include an objective valuation comparison of our current contract to any proposal of a replacement contract, would it not?

What are the dues being used for, if not what you just asked for? Why?

BAZINGA!

 

[EastUS1]

Don't we pay dues? I thought our dues were to enable our union to exercise due fiduciary responsibility, which would include an objective valuation comparison of our current contract to any proposal of a replacement contract, would it not?

What are the dues being used for, if not what you just asked for? Why?

"Shirley, you can't be serious!" Why, from your posting I'd almost think you didn't get the slick, glossy "sales brochure" which had to cost a bit of money! What more do you want here!?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Don't we pay dues? I thought our dues were to enable our union to exercise due fiduciary responsibility, which would include an objective valuation comparison of our current contract to any proposal of a replacement contract, would it not?

What are the dues being used for, if not what you just asked for? Why?

Remember it is grammar that is important! Emotion and that segment of the omniscient know you better than yourself! Agreed! where is the valuation, in scope, PBS etc! For an IOU, if you sit on the fence long enough you usually end up with an iron spike up your, well you get it! MM!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

We don't need the merger, they need us!

Just wait till Parker puts a cork in that talk at crew news. "Looking into the future..,blah blah...things not so rosy...,blah blah...streamlined big three blah blah...if not for this merger...blah blah." This will be part 2, only the east will be included this time.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Phoenix, end-of-alpa, MM and East

This data on 2002 Book Rates and the specific valuation on what CoC would mean, could also have been provided long ago by the previous USAPA administration. You know, the one we were sending dues money to before 2012.

BTW MM, in the immediate scheme of things, I would say the MOU wil have considerably more impact on our lives than the Magna Carta.

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, end-of-alpa, MM and East

This data on 2002 Book Rates and the specific valuation on what CoC would mean, could also have been provided long ago by the previous USAPA administration. You know, the one we were sending dues money to before 2012.

BTW MM, in the immediate scheme of things, I would say the MOU wil have considerably more impact on our lives than the Magna Carta.

So it's agreed we don't have an objective valuation comparison to use and its even less likely now that we will get an appendix to the brochure before the 8th.

Maybe the recall ending on the 5th could get us new reps that could tell us to gaze deeply into the color brochure, as is, and join hands together to leap as far and as high as we can, all the way to Valhalla # 3, or is it # 4, or # 5... And they lived happily ever after. The end. Oh, I've lost count long ago.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Phoenix, end-of-alpa, MM and East

This data on 2002 Book Rates and the specific valuation on what CoC would mean, could also have been provided long ago by the previous USAPA administration. You know, the one we were sending dues money to before 2012.

BTW MM, in the immediate scheme of things, I would say the MOU wil have considerably more impact on our lives than the Magna Carta.

Such an emotional statement, maybe your life scheme, not mine! Magna Carta was important in the colonization of American colonies as England's legal system was used as a model for many of the colonies as they were developing their own legal systems. History just like grammar very important! MM!

 

[Piedmont1984]

So it's agreed we don't have an objective valuation comparison to use and its even less likely now that we will get an appendix to the brochure before the 8th.

Maybe the recall ending on the 5th could get us new reps that could tell us to gaze deeply into the color brochure, as is, and join hands together to leap as far and as high as we can, all the way to Valhalla # 3, or is it # 4, or # 5.. Oh, I've lost count long ago.

That's exactly my point. You're doing the same thing with CoC.

 

[cleardirect]

So it's agreed we don't have an objective valuation comparison to use and its even less likely now that we will get an appendix to the brochure before the 8th.

Maybe the recall ending on the 5th could get us new reps that could tell us to gaze deeply into the color brochure, as is, and join hands together to leap as far and as high as we can, all the way to Valhalla # 3, or is it # 4, or # 5.. Oh, I've lost count long ago.

Those same outstanding CLT reps have been reps from the beginning. They have had 5 years to get you to Valhalla. Mike Cleary was in charge for a majority of that time. Paul Diorio had the NAC covered.

What was the result of their effort?

NADA!!!!

You say there is a white paper somewhere. Would that white paper not valuate what the CoC is worth and what the chances of getting those rates are? If those two tiny bits of information are not in that paper it was a waste of money commissioned by Cleary. Why have the outstanding CLT reps not released that white paper?

Maybe it does not match up to the story they are trying to sell.

 

[USA320Pilot]

n my opinion, the MOU/MTA is the fist bite of the apple towards the JCBA. A JCBA is an amalgamation of multiple documents into one. Every company has a ceiling in what they can afford to pay labor and it does not matter to management how the pie id divided. I believe the risks of voting "no" to the MOU are great and include:

1. No pay raise or other economic benefit.

2. No retro pay and no bonus.

3. No DC Plan improvements.

4. Continued stagnation on C2004 and LOA 93 with the continued loss due to the time value of money.

5. APA becoming our union and deciding the joint contract for us without our input.

6. The MOU puts us on an equal playing field with the APA at the time of the merger PID, which is important to subsequent seniority integration because of the importance economics pay when determining career expectation in an arbitration. How will our career expectation look to a Board of Arbitration with a 4:1 widebody disadvantage and C2004/LOA 93 as our contracts at the PID?

7. The successor Company from leveraging one group against the other.

The merger is likely to happen with us or without us and the MOU is binding on APA, which is required to file for single carrier CBA certification with the NMB within four months of the "effective" date. In my opinion, APA is very likely to be appointed our union and once they do they will negotiate our new contract's Pay, Benefits, Work Rules, Scope, Retirement, and Health & Welfare. Therefore, I believe "voting no" only delays the inevitable of APA deciding our MOU/MTA/JCBA for us, our pilots and their families suffering longer on bankruptcy era contracts, continued time loss of money & no economic gain for some of our colleagues who are retiring in the near future, and a serious SLI risk that could be worse than the the view of how the Nicolau Award effected USAPA's pilots based east of the Mississippi River.

USA320Pilot

 

[Phoenix]

That's exactly my point. You're doing the same thing with CoC.

Your point is you want a glossy to stare into while you leap?

I'm not doing anything with CoC. I'm simply asking where is the objective comparison, knowing full well that we won't get it before I have to cast my vote. There is far too much money involved, and far too many conflicting interests to allow room for any straight answers.