Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AAviator]

I said congratulations! Ps the value of that stock is directly tied to the size of the new American, with the merger (absent our CoC) it is much greater. I would suggest that the added value to their stock in a combined new American is worth more than our 40 million signing bonus.

You misunderstand why we get that 13.5%

I understand your desire to leverage the situation, but you're hanging your hat on a pipe dream.

 

[AAviator]

Perhaps. What if Doug and his "team" (I hate that term) screw it up and it the value is less? That is the risk the AA pilots are taking by backing Team Tempe.

That said, I just found my stock option statement from 2005. I received about $9000 from one grant. That stock price was no doubt increased because of the merger, but the west pilots didn't get the same.

Backing team tempe is a giant leap of faith IMO.

Our BOD (or BRP) has lost focus and has allowed their hatred of AA management rule the day.

If they were to poll the membership of thier support, there would be about 20-25% favoring a deal with team tempe.

(unscientific observation based on ops chat and line flying)

 

[Pi brat]

Backing team tempe is a giant leap of faith IMO.

Our BOD (or BRP) has lost focus and has allowed their hatred of AA management rule the day.

If they were to poll the membership of thier support, there would be about 20-25% favoring a deal with team tempe.

(unscientific observation based on ops chat and line flying)

I don't know any AA pilots so I can't counter your stats. On another board it is about 10 to 1 pro merger. I think the merger does have potential and would turn out to be good for all of us, but I understand your concerns. We'll see, that part is out of our hands.

 

[767one]

We have been using the "it will never happen anyway" logic to explain away management accommodating contract language for decades and we have paid dearly for such altruism. But whats it matter anyway. If it would never happen then it should be written that management bares the penalty if they change their mind or find unforeseen ways to do exactly what we knew they could never do. They always surprise us at their great feats to use the contract in new and exploitive ways.

Saying it will never happen is generous, seeing that Crandall told the APA in his little video a month or so ago... "Materiel changes to both networks" "pilots will have to move and fly smaller planes on less desirable routes".

I have looked at anything the company (or the faa) has proposed for years with the philosophy of "what is the worst thing they can do to us". I have rarely been dissapointed....they almost always come through with the worst thing. If it is not written in stone then it will be "interpreted" to the detriment of the pilot group.

All the best,

Bob

 

[767one]

Parker is on record as saying a merger won't happen if CoC is triggered. They have asked us in both MOU I and MOU II to relinquish CoC. In the current MOU the section addressing this is the only section that is written in plain English. In our merger with AWE this provision was waived. We needed a merger back then.

How do you think they will get around CoC in the present scenario?

Honest question.

I have no idea how they would get around it but if they want it that bad it must have great value. I remember when some alpa reps told us that Wolf wanted the ability to fly all those RJ's "just in case" but RJ's were just a fad and would go away.How did that work?

All the best,

Bob

 

[767one]

It's not "how it sits with me" that matters, it's what do I have the leverage to get.

If you believe we have the leverage to get more and can live with the conseqences if you're wrong then vote no but please don't vote based on how you feel.

The bottom line for me is do they need our COC or can they get around it.

It's not "how it sits with me" that matters, it's what do I have the leverage to get.

If you believe we have the leverage to get more and can live with the conseqences if you're wrong then vote no but please don't vote based on how you feel.

The bottom line for me is do they need our COC or can they get around it.

If they can get around it why would they keep trying to get the pilot group to give it away? Not once but twice. COC must have a lot of value.

All the best,

Bob

 

[AAviator]

I don't know any AA pilots so I can't counter your stats. On another board it is about 10 to 1 pro merger. I think the merger does have potential and would turn out to be good for all of us, but I understand your concerns. We'll see, that part is out of our hands.

Yup,
If a merger occurs, you'll get to meet those 30-40 guys that are on C&R daily.... They're on the union bulletin board as well as APC.

Flying the line and face to face interaction tells a vastly different story..

 

[Claxon]

There is no incentive in the MOU for East pilots to do anything past what is best for themselves and not the airline. It is not my job will be the best that creditors can expect from the East pilots moving forward. Most have few years left in their career.

This MOU removes the gold watch incentive that was prevalent from their generation.

Use your imagination.

 

[Claxon]

The pen is the mightier than the sword.

"True, This! —
Beneath the rule of men entirely great
The pen is mightier than the sword. Behold
The arch-enchanters wand! — itself is nothing! —
But taking sorcery from the master-hand
To paralyse the Cæsars, and to strike
The loud earth breathless! — Take away the sword —
States can be saved without it!"

 

[Phoenix]

I have looked at anything the company (or the faa) has proposed for years with the philosophy of "what is the worst thing they can do to us". I have rarely been dissapointed....they almost always come through with the worst thing. If it is not written in stone then it will be "interpreted" to the detriment of the pilot group.

All the best,

Bob

No one can argue with that! Hope you are enjoying retirement!

 

[Phoenix]

I don't know any AA pilots so I can't counter your stats. On another board it is about 10 to 1 pro merger. I think the merger does have potential and would turn out to be good for all of us, but I understand your concerns. We'll see, that part is out of our hands.

All the AA jumpseaters I see want the merger bad, and as was said earlier it appears their hatred of Horton seems to heavily influence their awe of DUI.

 

[Metroyet]

There is no incentive in the MOU for East pilots to do anything past what is best for themselves and not the airline. It is not my job will be the best that creditors can expect from the East pilots moving forward. Most have few years left in their career.

This MOU removes the gold watch incentive that was prevalent from their generation.

Use your imagination.

HA!! Really? You've been providing Doug Parker with record profits and RECORD ON TIME PERFORMANCE all the while on LOA 93!!!! You're getting a 30+ dollar per hour raise and NOW you're going to burn the house down? You must live in an very interesting world...one where you think you actually matter.

 

[EastUS1]

All the AA jumpseaters I see want the merger bad, and as was said earlier it appears their hatred of Horton seems to heavily influence their awe of DUI.

Hmm...That can only be a direct result of "beer goggles" being worn on the AMR side...They've no diea what they're possibly getting here.

 

[Phoenix]

Perhaps. What if Doug and his "team" (I hate that term) screw it up and it the value is less? That is the risk the AA pilots are taking by backing Team Tempe.

That said, I just found my stock option statement from 2005. I received about $9000 from one grant. That stock price was no doubt increased because of the merger, but the west pilots didn't get the same.

The West didn't have a CoC that DUI wast hell bent on taking away.

 

[EastUS1]

HA!! Really? You've been providing Doug Parker with record profits and RECORD ON TIME PERFORMANCE all the while on LOA 93!!!!

Hmm...and here you'd earlier posted that Parker was putting money into our pockets. Sigh! Make up your "mind" will you?