Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion
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"It really boils down to who will blink first." Agreed.
"...they could likely get CoC eliminated on the cheap by tried-and-true methods. Next thing you know, the mailman is delivering a glossy sales brochure." I'd thought along much the same lines there. I'd still like to know the "thinking" behind issuing out the glossy sales brochure, but, in any case, of course team tempe doesn't need CoC to go away. They can easily and immediately get around it, and it has "no value" of course, just ask them
....Yeah, sure thing suckers!nycbusdriver
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You can change your vote as many times as you want up till the deadline. I've done it already on this issue. Started with voting "Yes," then read a bit closer and changed it to "No." Where it will stay. Just log back in and request the ballot again.
Point of order,
The 100K APA pilots are getting has no relevance to the MOU. It is part of the BK settlement and has absolutely nothing to do with LCC or any potential merger. To think otherwise is nothing but sour grapes. If anything, this MOU is greatly lopsided in favor of the LCC pilots, as you will see total compensation raises in some cases of 40% and a lump sum signing bonus.
APA pilots get an extra 87 million a year that we will use to improve the total CBA, which benefits you as well.
Try to stick to facts.
Well...THAT certainly seems a "reasonable" assumption. After all...umm...HOW many tens of millions would top management pocket from this, and how badly would their egos suffer being left atop the world's largest airline? Why..there's almost no motivation for them to want this at all. Sigh! You're right. I'm sure they just couldn't care any less whether this happens or not.
"The 100K APA pilots are getting......APA pilots get an extra 87 million a year...which benefits you as well."...?
Screw you punk. Per your "Try to stick to facts"? My apologies then, I should've said; Screw you, you absurdly arrogant little punk. Were this any semblance of a decent and balanced deal...your sorry arse wouldn't feel any need to be "selling" it here. That you feel some/ANY need to try doing so at all is most telling indeed.
Phoenix
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- Apr 16, 2003
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Perhaps the MOU CoC language has no ambiguity is because our current protection from CoC is equally so. And the ambiguity of concessions or benefits going forward are similar to loa 93 because it worked before, might work again!
Sadly sir, those are valid points.
Phoenix
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- Apr 16, 2003
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Yes it's part of your bankruptcy settlement, along with your pension you are keeping. That's the point.
Your bankruptcy settlement is very much wrapped up in this MOU, without concessions on our LPPs this merger won't happen. I don't begrudge you getting $100K to exit bankruptcy. I think it's great. Congratulations.
I'm probably going to regret this. I said I was leaving and I did, just tuned in every once in a while to check on the usual subjects.
I've been reading the opinions on the MOU. I wasn't able to attend the road show, so I've asked for a summary of what was presented from friends and have been reading other's opinions.
I don't get the angst about the equity that the AA pilots are getting. From what I understand I have to agree with AAviatior. That stake was negotiated in their chp 11 negotiations with AA. They have nothing to do with the merger, it's compensation for what they lost. They will get that stake whether we merge or not. So, if we don't merge the get approx. 15% of the new stock. If we do merge, AA stake holders get around 70% of the new AA and US shareholders will get around 30%(%s to be determined). So the AA pilots will get 15% of the 70% of the new AA, or about the same as they would absent a merger. We are not entitled to that. Back in 2004 we negotiated LOA 93 with two 35 million dollar payouts and stock options. In 2005 our POR upheld those payouts, but west pilots were not entitled to a share, were they? The AA pilots had the power/luck to get more than we did. If the merger is successful, their % of the company may be worth more. Good for them. The US/AW merger raised the value of our stock options. If I remember correctly I received about $30,0000 in stock option and lump sum payouts that west pilots didn't get.
Concessions in the MOU. There certainly are some, like the reserve guarantee and life insurance. Seems to be more for west pilots than east. But, every contract I have seen at the company, except maybe the first one at PI, has had some concession to it. On the whole, a MOU led contract will have much more give than take.
COC. Yes, I believe it has value, just not enough to rely on it. Let's say we turn down the MOU, a merger goes through and we press COC. The company will drag it out in court and even if we do win we will only get the rates until the APA takes over and renegotiates a new joint contract.
Fire away.
I've been reading the opinions on the MOU. I wasn't able to attend the road show, so I've asked for a summary of what was presented from friends and have been reading other's opinions.
I don't get the angst about the equity that the AA pilots are getting. From what I understand I have to agree with AAviatior. That stake was negotiated in their chp 11 negotiations with AA. They have nothing to do with the merger, it's compensation for what they lost. They will get that stake whether we merge or not. So, if we don't merge the get approx. 15% of the new stock. If we do merge, AA stake holders get around 70% of the new AA and US shareholders will get around 30%(%s to be determined). So the AA pilots will get 15% of the 70% of the new AA, or about the same as they would absent a merger. We are not entitled to that. Back in 2004 we negotiated LOA 93 with two 35 million dollar payouts and stock options. In 2005 our POR upheld those payouts, but west pilots were not entitled to a share, were they? The AA pilots had the power/luck to get more than we did. If the merger is successful, their % of the company may be worth more. Good for them. The US/AW merger raised the value of our stock options. If I remember correctly I received about $30,0000 in stock option and lump sum payouts that west pilots didn't get.
Concessions in the MOU. There certainly are some, like the reserve guarantee and life insurance. Seems to be more for west pilots than east. But, every contract I have seen at the company, except maybe the first one at PI, has had some concession to it. On the whole, a MOU led contract will have much more give than take.
COC. Yes, I believe it has value, just not enough to rely on it. Let's say we turn down the MOU, a merger goes through and we press COC. The company will drag it out in court and even if we do win we will only get the rates until the APA takes over and renegotiates a new joint contract.
Fire away.
Indeed. Why else would that nic-loving little laddie be posting here?
The AA pilots get that whether the merger happens or not. They used the threat of a merger to get more. Smart, good for them, but there is no guarantee the merger will happen. Not everyone is convinced that a merger with US is best for them and many think US shareholders and employees need it more.
When west pilots were wanting part of our $70 million payouts and better contract provisions because we had a PBGC benefit how many of us agreed with them?
Imagine that? = Not being bluffed into giving away the whole store for basically nothing?....Perhaps there's a lesson here for many others to note.
traderjake
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- Aug 30, 2002
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Glad to see you drop in.
Aren't you gettin' just a little tired of that?
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