Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Parker is on record as saying a merger won't happen if CoC is triggered. They have asked us in both MOU I and MOU II to relinquish CoC. In the current MOU the section addressing this is the only section that is written in plain English. In our merger with AWE this provision was waived. We needed a merger back then.

How do you think they will get around CoC in the present scenario?

Honest question.

"14. USAPA agrees to waive all change of control provisions, including, but not limited to, Section 1.D in the East collective bargaining agreement, LPPs, daily minimum utilization, and minimum fleet requirements in the East and West collective bargaining agreements and in the Transition Agreement conditioned upon the occurrence of the Effective Date."

But so what if the MOU is clear, in the words of Hillary, what does it matter anyway?

 

[A320 Driver]

I didn't see the part where line holders can't be displaced, or the part where reserves in base, who become line holders on the 190, won't then be required to commute to another base on reserve. Please do point it out if its there.

The only time I've seen block holders displaced off of equipment was during a base closure.

 

[Phoenix]

The only time I've seen block holders displaced off of equipment was during a base closure.

We have been using the "it will never happen anyway" logic to explain away management accommodating contract language for decades and we have paid dearly for such altruism. But whats it matter anyway. If it would never happen then it should be written that management bares the penalty if they change their mind or find unforeseen ways to do exactly what we knew they could never do. They always surprise us at their great feats to use the contract in new and exploitive ways.

Saying it will never happen is generous, seeing that Crandall told the APA in his little video a month or so ago... "Materiel changes to both networks" "pilots will have to move and fly smaller planes on less desirable routes".

 

[luvthe9]

I don't believe at this point the merger is a done deal and I don't believe the UCC will vote for it if CoC is going to be triggered.

Well gee whiz, some folks might call that "LEVERAGE".

 

[nycbusdriver]

Those who have always jumped at the chance to give more concession sound silly when they talk about assessing leverage, or cry aloud in agony for the E190 pilots that aren't covered by CoC snap backs. Thank goodness someone is reminding us to take the junior guys into account.

Holding on to the CoC is our last, best chance to actually get something for the E190 pilots. The MOU enshrines them in second-class status for at least ten years. Sure, it's a pay raise, but how does it compare to JetBlue 190s? Republic 170s?

I hope no one thinks that anyone will ever see CoC rates of pay even if the MOU is voted down. The possibility of those rates will only serve to force management (AA and US) and the UCC to "get religion" and come to the table in earnest.

 

[EastUS1]

Can't wait to see how much farther you'll go when this MOU and the Nic get shoved up your 6. This will be epic. Can't wait.

Umm...Princess?...You might want to work on your sales and promotional skills a bit.

No matter really. There you have it folks. The very best wishes being always afforded to the east by this fine individual....Well...I can't speak for anyone else here, but that certainly convinces me that the MOU's an unquestionably fine idea indeed....why else would it ever need to be "shoved up your 6"?

 

[EastUS1]

Well gee whiz, some folks might call that "LEVERAGE".

Indeed.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I sure as heck wouldn't call this the "hind teat". I don't need another repeat of LOA93.

That's exactly what it is. And this whole scenario is a repeat of LOA 93. Some players have changed, and the language is a bit updated, but the situation is so similar it's eerie.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I don't believe at this point the merger is a done deal and I don't believe the UCC will vote for it if CoC is going to be triggered.

Okay, so you agree that we do have leverage and they can't get around it. We can actually stop this merger. You're just reluctant to use it.

I have no desire to stop this merger. So lets not make it a deal breaker, but lets at least put it in play and get reasonable compensation for giving it up. Lets at least take it to the second, last best final offer.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you got bumped off of your previous equipment, you were a reserve ALREADY.

Yeah, but ALREADY a reserve might be in a base where you reside. This MOU will force you to move, commute to reserve or give up the much-touted "pay protections."

 

[EastUS1]

That's exactly what it is. And this whole scenario is a repeat of LOA 93. Some players have changed, and the language is a bit updated, but the situation is so similar it's eerie.

"...but the situation is so similar it's eerie." Most especially where the lack of ANY concrete language is concerned...well.."surprisingly," except where the CoC's involved. That's covered in very specific detail. WHY isn't everything/ANYthing else made equally clear, concise and certain? Seriously: Has no one learned ANYthing at all from past experience?

 

[traderjake]

Okay, so you agree that we do have leverage and they can't get around it. We can actually stop this merger. You're just reluctant to use it.

I didn't say they can't get around it.

You assume they can't.

I don't assume they want this merger as bad as everyone thinks they do.

 

[Phoenix]

Holding on to the CoC is our last, best chance to actually get something for the E190 pilots. The MOU enshrines them in second-class status for at least ten years. Sure, it's a pay raise, but how does it compare to JetBlue 190s? Republic 170s?

I hope no one thinks that anyone will ever see CoC rates of pay even if the MOU is voted down. The possibility of those rates will only serve to force management (AA and US) and the UCC to "get religion" and come to the table in earnest.

exactly

 

[nycbusdriver]

I don't believe at this point the merger is a done deal and I don't believe the UCC will vote for it if CoC is going to be triggered.

In which case, the CoC is meaningful and not easily avoided.

But I don't think the UCC will walk away from a merger over that. Parker gave them his play book (bequeathed to him by David Siegal) and told them they could likely get CoC eliminated on the cheap by tried-and-true methods. Next thing you know, the mailman is delivering a glossy sales brochure.

AA can't effectively compete as a stand-alone with United and Delta, and they know it. They've also run the numbers on what this merger would likely bring.

It really boils down to who will blink first.

 

[fatherabraham]

all,

Just had a Yes voter ask me if the system would allow more than 1 vote with last 1 being the 1 that counted.
I replied I had not cast mine yet so not sure.
Anyone know?

Btw, I voted for
DiOrio
Music
Pflanzer

FA