Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[end_of_alpa]

The NAC presentation leaves out 15 day window for arbitrator selection.

On or before ED +30 Protocol

On or before ED +90 SLI negotiation APA-USAPA

On ED +90 No SLI, arbitrator selection starts

On ED + 105 arbitrators selected

On or before +60 of arbitrator selected, arbitration begins (after JCBA)

On or after 6 months of start of arbitration to ED + 2 years, Seniority List.

 

[nevergiveup]

Anyone think there can be a seniority agreement in the first 90 days?

 

[end_of_alpa]

The original document (LOA 96) that was ratified by our pilots set the process (read "process") for combining the seniority lists and defined working conditions during the period prior to operational integration and a CBA. There were originally 3 parties to that agreement, US Airways, ALPA East, and ALPA West. When USAPA came along two of the parties became one. To this day, either party (USAPA or US Airways) could agree to CHANGE the T/A process. USAPA, of course, would have to have a membership vote to do that. That particular process was never taken to completion, and after 7 years a NEW agreement was reached with US Airways and USAPA, one that included a new third party APA.So we are now voting to change how our lists are merged. On Feb 8 the likely outcome is the MOU will REPLACE LOA 96. Any list created by the MOU process will face the looming threat of a DFR from any party concerned; but any such DFR will reference the MOU, not LOA 96.Greeter

You guys are totally missing the point here.

There are no "lists" the way your seeing it.

Read the MOU 10f. DATA COLLECTION.

Verifiable pilot employment "information" will be exchanged in first 30 days of ED. Like name, pay number, LOA, furloughed, date hired, dob, and probably sick etc. this is company provided data. That's the protocol part.

The "list" is those pilots employed by American (new) under the terms of paragraph 7.

That means all of us.

Then USAPA and APA try to work out an ISL.

If not successful, argument.

That's the law at this point and nothing else applies.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Anyone think there can be a seniority agreement in the first 90 days?

Once the rest of the JNC is done, it is very possible an agreed list with fences and restrictions could be finished in that timeframe. As I have said here many times, APA has a lot to possibly lose going to arbitration. We are mostly gone in 7 years. They have never been through a process like this, so I guess anything COULD happen.Greeter

 

[cleardirect]

Everyone seems to leave out the parts they don't like. The above can happen post seniority if USAPA and APA reach an agreement in the first 90 days after the effective date.

Sure! The chances of usapa making an agreement with anyone over seniority?... ZERO.

usapa has locked themselves I to a DOH only position. APA will never agree so there will be no agreement on seniority.

 

[cleardirect]

The truth will emerge.

Good luck.

People's version of the truth will emerge.

We will never know the real truth.

Ted Redd has already changed his version of the truth.

 

[end_of_alpa]

People's version of the truth will emerge.

We will never know the real truth.

Ted Redd has already changed his version of the truth.

This is a philosophical debate. I agree. Lets rephrase the argument. We garner all the facts, sort the wheat from the chaff and what's left is there to support or deny a position.

That is logic 101.

 

[cleardirect]

This is a philosophical debate. I agree. Lets rephrase the argument. We garner all the facts, sort the wheat from the chaff and what's left is there to support or deny a position.

That is logic 101.

Whose "facts" will be used? Will all of the " facts" be known or just certain " facts" that certain people what known?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Anyone think there can be a seniority agreement in the first 90 days?

I've always said its possible.

But again,

The union is interested in seniority, a "value" only labor is interested in.

The company is only interested in cost + (goodwill or culture, which may or may not be denominated in currency).

The FAA is only interested in minimum qualifications (as far as pilots are concerned).

 

[end_of_alpa]

Whose "facts" will be used? Will all of the " facts" be known or just certain " facts" that certain people what known?

That's dependent on forum or venue (jurisdiction). For example, here on the forum there are no rules. One mans truth is another man's lie.

If you file a complaint in Federal District Court (for example) your bound by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure which in turn relies on the FR of evidence. The defendant in the very same answer to the complaint argues a position to remain outside the courts jurisdiction. And so on.

In the case of the BPR closed session, with no notes, was NOT the design function. But so what. Like here, rules get broken. Thats when society breaks down.

Philosophically, I think it's only natural and eventually the law of the jungle rules.

 

[cleardirect]

That's dependent on forum or venue (jurisdiction). For example, here on the forum there are no rules. One mans truth is another man's lie.

If you file a complaint in Federal District Court (for example) your bound by the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure which in turn relies on the FR of evidence. The defendant in the very same answer to the complaint argues a position to remain outside the courts jurisdiction. And so on.

In the case of the BPR closed session, with no notes, was NOT the design function. But so what. Like here, rules get broken. Thats when society breaks down.

Philosophically, I think it's only natural and eventually the law of the jungle rules.

Like when a group refuses to live up to their word on binding arbitration. When the rules are broken society breaks down and we are put in a bad position of accepting a sub standard MOU. Or union and its leadership.

 

[PullUp]

Like when a group refuses to live up to their word on binding arbitration. When the rules are broken society breaks down and we are put in a bad position of accepting a sub standard MOU. Or union and its leadership.

Dude, it is what it is. Deal and move forward. The fight is over.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Like when a group refuses to live up to their word on binding arbitration. When the rules are broken society breaks down and we are put in a bad position of accepting a sub standard MOU. Or union and its leadership.

Look. Build a bridge and get over it. You want to have a sane discussion, I'm game. The law to this point didnt support your assertions.

THAT arbitration you refer to will be null and void if that "substandard" MOU gets raitified.

We have a "union", but we a;so have a minority that doesn't want to be represented by it.

We have people that are the so-called leaders, you (and me, for that matter) don't want to be led by them.

See, common agreement.

 

[traderjake]

Looks like the truth is beginning to emerge.

Thanks CLT reps.

APA got an $87 million increase in the value of their deal, are the CLT Reps responsible for that?

We got more money because APA got more money, not because of the heroics of 3 guys trying to avoid recall.

Thanks APA.

 

[Metroyet]

Look. Build a bridge and get over it. You want to have a sane discussion, I'm game. The law to this point didnt support your assertions

You're in for a rude awakening.