Dec 2012 / Jan 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Portly Dorman]

Can't rape what you can't have.

Guess you should return all the a/c deliveries since the merger was announced.

Remember AWA wasn't in bk, us errways was.

Guess the facts must get in the way.

 

[EastUS1]

Eastholeus,

First, I am not miserable. I am quite happy, ....

You may not understand that concept because I believe you have been ashamed of yourself and your actions for some time now (especially since trying to avoid binding arbitration) You are most likely, as a lot of eastholes are, looking down at your shoes because you don't want to see the scorn if your fellow pilot's eyes.

1) Indeed. Your entire posting history is one that clearly could come only from a happy and contented individual. Oh well...Not anyone else's problem but your own.

2) Wow!....Again, I can only honestly and strongly suggest that you seek help for your grandly delusional issues. Your choice.

PS: Ames "Just as in the military (if you really were in it).." Well...I certainly can't compare our respective "service", since I was never a "spartan", nor ever "knighted", and not even so much as a "dire wolf" in any mighty "army" of leo-whatevers as are yourself and your proud, scowling fellows.

 

[Portly Dorman]

Seems the east is now feeding on its own now. But the fall back to ALPA national is always there...

Wow, Jamie. You were all union when USAPA was coming onto property. Seems like your attitude changed when you were snubbed by your own pilots during your political run. Sour grapes now?

Jamie's never been know for his 'rational' thinking, 3 year old temper tantrums reminiscent of East1 come to mind.

Feeding on your own when you can't blame ALPA national. It's been 7 years since ALPA has had any power here and yet we haven't budged an inch towards betterment of our pay and working conditions. The AFO club lives in the past and only recourse
is to sue fellow union members.

Amazing what 3 PHX votes can do to completely shut down the 11 member board...

 

[EastUS1]

Amazing what 3 PHX votes can do to completely shut down the 11 member board...

If ever a finer posted example of the "thought" processes of a made-for-management's-delight, "useful idiot" is to be found anywhere, it would greatly surprise me.

 

[EastUS1]

Also, US Airways, as a medium sized, National Carrier, with a small, but steady and growing International presence will be no more. The very thing that made us the Flying Cockroach which the big airlines couldn’t kill will be gone and we will have done so voluntarily, as we did when 9-guys signed away your pension. This IS history and circumstances repeating. We shall lose our attrition advancements too.

Did you know?

There will be no minimum number of airframes if we ratify this MOU.

The minimum number of hours which must be flown by former US Airways pilots will be much lower than now. How much lower? No one knows, because the standard of measurement is to become “scheduled to fly”, rather than “actually flown”, as it is now.

Our current minimum fleet size and minimum block hour provision is so enforceable that it is one of the big grievances we have pursued and won…if we ratify this MOU, it’s gone.

Gone too is our Scope and Change of Control language. What is ours to fly and what can be “rationalized” to other bases? No one knows.

American Airlines pilots are earning New Green Book, and 14% DC contributions right now. We will get a promissory note for the difference in hourly, to be paid…..sometime.

Any protections to our flying end in a maximum of 18 months after The New American is a single carrier with US Airways, or when there exists a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement. (MOU Para. 8) The rest of Para. 8 goes on to describe how FURLOUGHED pilots will be able to go to the bottom of the bidding list of the respective other carrier…..not a warm fuzzy and positive outlook; where is the “growth plan”?

Preferential Bidding and the new flight time/duty time rigs will be a fact of life, by early 2014......Old estimates from a stand-alone US Airways model were that PBS might cost upwards of 400 jobs. Imagine that sort of efficiency applied to AA’s operation, then combine it with ours, and the loss of 1000 positions – permanently – is not unfathomable.

Do not kid yourselves; if we ratify this MOU (as currently written) GROWTH AT USAIRWAYS IS OVER.

Before you vote, read the whole MOU…twice. .....if we sign off on this MOU as is, US Airways, as we have known it, (at least the good parts) will begin very soon and irrevocably to disappear.

The only way a former US Airways pilot will be going to Europe, by say… 2016, is in Row 15. It will all be done in the name of efficiency…very logical. Not too good for us the line pilot. Being part of a Winning Team is great…if you get to play.

Don’t worry…as our brothers at The New American Airlines taxi by at PHL in their 777, you will be given a hearty thumbs up, in the cockpit of your shiny new EMB 195….or at least some kind of a hand gesture.

The very, very vague language of the MOU as written ...... The Dead Sea Scrolls are more straightforward.

We (our NAC, the 11-0 Board vote and President Gary Hummel) have set ourselves up for a series of very surprising interpretations by the UCC, Management and APA of the MOU language. Because Man built the tower of Babel, God confused their languages so that various tribes couldn’t communicate...well, things haven't changed!

So you might ask in exasperation; what is my alternative? I MUST VOTE YES….I MUST HAVE THE MONEY! LOOK AT THE MONEY…YOU ARE GETTING SLEEPY….LOOK DEEPLY AT THE MONEY; there! You’re hypnotized.

On Page 5 of “Flight Plan To A Merger”, our union devotes one whole paragraph to alternatives. I title it, “My Way, or the Highway”, or, Flight Plan to a "maybe."

Pretty much what you see, or in our case haven’t seen, is what you will get….for the rest of most of our careers. In any case, the MOU mandates that JCBA disputes go to binding arbitration.

.... on the subject of our Scope and Change of Control Language. In summary, it concludes that (in the instant case) – the UCC, (Jack Butler) and LCC might be able, or might not (Giordano and Company lean toward the position that the company could notget around Scope and Change of Control, but stop short of promising so) get around USAPA and defeat the Change of Control Language. USAPA is very quick to aver that. position. What USAPA is not so fond of mentioning is the conclusion in that same White Paper by the independent law firm Giordano, Halleran & Ciesla that although it MIGHT be defeated, it certainly couldn’t be done automatically, cheaply , or in less time than several months, to several years in court. Timing is everything in a time sensitive transaction such as this one.

The Board gave their direction to the NAC and then made their decision to endorse the MOU, without a healthy debate of ALL of the options. I really wonder why…

For the UCC, Parker and APA this is a business decision. The US Airways Line Pilots’ ratification of this MOU is the one missing piece of a $25,000,000,000 machine. I firmly believe they need US Airways more than we need them…at least for a couple of years.

What do we get? Every pilot will answer that in his own way, but frankly, not much. Lots of promises, most likely a pay rise. However, I am not sure we fully comprehend the titanic changes in our work rules, flexibility and loss of opportunity that will be the heavy price we pay for that money. Again, in the current scheme, our attrition is GONE. This last bid…a happy omen for most; will be one of the last. I honestly believe that we will be flying smaller airplanes, for less money ($114 hr. /$126 hr. EMB 195) – while the other (inaccessible to us) crew bases begin to expand. Ask your PHX brothers how that feels.

A negotiation isn’t over until it is signed and the goods are delivered and the money is exchanged. That hasn’t happened.

What USAPA hasn’t considered, officially anyhow, is the possibilities that exist in a NO vote by you, the Line Pilots. We have very recent and very relevant history. In mid 2012, the Line Pilots of American were presented by their APA President with an "Last Best Final Offer" to vote on That President told his Line Pilots that this was the best they could ever hope for. He told them all the money had been squeezed. He told them that AMR was bankrupt and that the UCC was running the show. He told them to vote for the LBFO, or die a horrible, gooey death.

The Line Pilots told him to go back to the Line and told the UCC and AMR a not too polite, NO. They then did not die a gooey death but instead they were able to capture many improvements. So really, it was the "next to last best final offer!"

USAPA (page 5) says basically the same thing to us. I seriously doubt that some changes in the contract language of this MOU, some concrete protections for our flying, fleet, attrition and a little money ( think $200,000,000 in aggregate, over three years) is enough to upset a $25,000,000,000 polished apple cart.

I could be wrong..but history says no. And that’s what I am saying to the MOU, as currently structured.

The rest is up to The Line Pilots of the long suffering US Airways. History favors the bold.

My selected portions above are just some points I found both reasonable and worthy of thought. All must decide for themselves. It's your futures either way.

 

[EastUS1]

The decision to vote yes or no on the MOU really comes down to two points if the proposed merger proceeds:

The only way full and proper consideration of anything so momentous could ever come down to only "two" points..is if that figure equals the sum total of functioning brain cells within any individual supposedly "thinking" about all this.

 

[Portly Dorman]

My selected portions above are just some points I found both reasonable and worthy of thought. All must decide for themselves. It's your futures either way.

Because you helped write them?..

 

[end_of_alpa]

Wow, Jamie. You were all union when USAPA was coming onto property. Seems like your attitude changed when you were snubbed by your own pilots during your political run. Sour grapes now?

You don't even know me. We had one chance to unite when we got rid of ALPA, the only officer was a Continental Pilot who was President. We NEEDED to remove outside influence from that beast because the only interest ALPA had in us was to dissolve us and roll whatever pilots that wanted jobs into the BOTTOM feeder positions at Delta/United or worse.

So you, just like West pilots somehow think I'm going to walk lockstep with you when you simply care naught for any years of service with the new company. If years of service have no value then the union has no value.

Read Flying the Line vol. II and learn something....like how the American/Delta/United pilots set the trend for Braniff/Eastern & Pan Am. AWA pilots definitely learned from the best.

It was a long shot but I was willing to attempt a change in pilot thinking....I might as well bought stock in Frank Lorenzos equity fund, because thats what labor keeps doing to itself.

I don't believe in any seniority agreement because you keep repeating the same mistakes.

 

[end_of_alpa]

If ever a finer posted example of the "thought" processes of a made-for-management's-delight, "useful idiot" is to be found anywhere, it would greatly surprise me.

There's the truth of it. "Sabotage", thy name is PHX (Leonidas).

 

[end_of_alpa]

Actually, they felt that the Westoff Scabs would feel more at home and embrace the new union. LMAO. Also, I look at everyone of you Westoffs in the eyes when I see you You always blink first and I laugh.

I'm right there with you. Said hello to one the other day. He just looked down and turned away. I think it was Mike "we hate you guys" _______.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Guess you should return all the a/c deliveries since the merger was announced.

Remember AWA wasn't in bk, us errways was.

Guess the facts must get in the way.

Real fact: AWA in BK winter 2005/06. Go ask Parker for the twentieth time....YOU WERE GOING! FACT. Parker keeps telling you but, oh, wait, "you can't believe anything our CEO says."

Denial is a sorry way to play the fiddle while Rome burns. Oh, thats right, you're Greek(Leonidas).

 

[end_of_alpa]

Someone on the east needs to get Woody his meds....

"Seniority Integration; Well, here we shall be again, at the pointy end of the spear. McCaskill-Bond; you do know that this piece of legislation was crafted with the express purpose of outlawing the kind of outrageous injustices perpetrated upon the pilots of TWA in a merger seniority integration? Those guys got hosed…bad.

Thank goodness we won’t have to deal with the kind of demonstrably rapacious, fellow pilot eating guys who raped the TWA guys."

And the east hasn't raped the west, can woody pass a drug test?

You may not agree with his prose, but his analysis of MO"Uose" was on the money.

And you were not raped by us, go sue ALPA. You know, the one that made the promise.

 

[dca319]

There's the truth of it. "Sabotage", thy name is PHX (Leonidas).

No, its more like "Accountability", the name is not USAPA.

I'd think we'd be more successful if we could stop blaming National, Leonidas, or the west for our ills and start taking the blame.

You're giving the west far too much credit when you blame them for sabotage. Haven't you noticed that the same names seem to appear when we fail? Its always the same pilots that aren't very far from the goings on when we hit bottom.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Seems the east is now feeding on its own now. But the fall back to ALPA national is always there...

Jamie's never been know for his 'rational' thinking, 3 year old temper tantrums reminiscent of East1 come to mind.

Feeding on your own when you can't blame ALPA national. It's been 7 years since ALPA has had any power here and yet we haven't budged an inch towards betterment of our pay and working conditions. The AFO club lives in the past and only recourse
is to sue fellow union members.

Amazing what 3 PHX votes can do to completely shut down the 11 member board...

Thank you for making my point rational.

First, ALPA is gone and you're correct. But your belief in "their promise" is still here.

Second, Steve Bradford initiated the suit, not me (and who voted for him?)

Lately, thank you for admitting my point that the PHX reps have a "scorched earth" policy. Now, can you tell me who was the last "leader" in history who advocated that very same policy? (Jeopardy music here....)

 

[dca319]

Real fact: AWA in BK winter 2005/06. Go ask Parker for the twentieth time....YOU WERE GOING! FACT. Parker keeps telling you but, oh, wait, "you can't believe anything our CEO says."

Denial is a sorry way to play the fiddle while Rome burns. Oh, thats right, you're Greek(Leonidas).

I don't know where you get your financial information from, but we and only we were in bankruptcy. America West wasn't even close to filing and I challenge you to find even one article that indicated their bankruptcy was imminent. You, like many others, seem to find some solace in that thought. Are you trying to level the playing field with the west? And even if they did file, how long did we muck around in bankruptcy?