Day the Music Died

[local 12 proud]

Unfortuneatly for you and I Local 12.....their liberal fairy tale come true in DC will have repercussions the likes these posters can not fathom.Its those rose colored glasses,dude....
They can't see beyond the end of their nose for what its worth....
I just can't wait to hear all the excuses when the Merde hits the Ventilatuer after we pull out.Its quite plain for me to see that a withdrawal from the big 'I' will be seen as defeat and they will have us on the run and it will embolden them on.What fools these liberals are...then The She Bittch will want to open a dialog.Phooken idiots...... :down:

Dude we just need to learn a new language, those people are just misunderstood and we need to learn about their culture, we're being left behind globally...Blah..Blah...Blah

The plans are being drawn if not already laid and its just a matter of time, I suspect once the libs gain full control and our military might is decimated again by the likes of 'thunder thighs' we will be tested to the utmost.

as you put it in more eloquent terms, once 'the dookey hits the fan' the libs will be rolling over on their backs and wetting themselves like a scared dog.

These folks just want to have peaceful dialogue... :huh:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/02/sle..._united_st.html

 

[Ch. 12]

local 12-

I'm not too worried about Iraqi oil b/c it accounts for 4% of our imports. If some "evil" country takes over the supply, perhaps we'll just go to Saudi Arabia, Venzuela, Canada, Mexico, Angola, Nigeria, or some other country from which we already import far more oil than Iraq.


Now this is comical to me. The two of you are already buying everything new that Bushie is throwing at you during his wag the dog attempt even though it is proven that he has lied numerous times. Iran is just to make you forget about Iraq...and you are naive enough to believe that. And c'mon 12...what kind of moron couldn't forsee that removing a dicatator with no post-removal plan at all would instigate a civil war. How idiotic. Perhaps it is the lack of any forsight at all? Kind of like how you can't see that we are breeding a much angrier and more numerous group of terrorists that our children will get to enjoy.

And you honestly think that Saddam was more of a threat than half a dozen central African nations that are killing millions a year? If we entered this war as a savior to the Iraqi people (I'm just humoring you here b/c we all know that we entered under false/fabricated pretenses and have since tried to revise history as to why we're there) then why not "free" (i.e. spiral into a civil war while killing thousands of our own) the countries that should have been much higher on the list?

What is the "mission" that we are trying to accomplish. There still is no strategy. "Strategy" means long term ideology yet we are only making tactical moves such as sending more soldiers to the region in reaction to escalating civil war. What is the strategy in that? There is no plan to do anything but continue to instigate and breed terrorists.

It would be nice if you two could gain some forsight (and some hindsight, too...so that you can recall the TRUE reasons for what our prez has chosen to do during his reign of terror). But I could care less if either of you ever get it b/c it can be quite comical sometimes...especially the Fox News soundbites, links to conservo-blogs, and your endless subscription to any talking points that Tony Snow feeds you. What worries me, though, is that our president is ruining this country in his dictatorial hunt for more power and his ignorant view of our troops as his "toy soldiers". If either of you gave a damn about the troops you'd be calling for a strategy and not just praising unending tactics.

 

[delldude]

I'm not too worried about Iraqi oil b/c it accounts for 4% of our imports. If some "evil" country takes over the supply, perhaps we'll just go to Saudi Arabia, Venzuela, Canada, Mexico, Angola, Nigeria, or some other country from which we already import far more oil than Iraq.

Well Dude...when Iran goes nuclear.....they may intimidate the Saud's more than Saddam ever did....and by then,your kind will have relegated us into political oblivion because you just didn't have the Balls to stick it out.
I'd feel safe saying Canada will still sell us oil,but don't trust Hugo.....and the Afrikkans are always striking for one reason or another...so where you gonna get your Lube Job?

Now this is comical to me.

You know,i'd bet my left nut if one of the Clintons or Gore or Kerry made the decision to do Iraq,you'd be doing backflips defending their choice...and don't boosheet me here...

even though it is proven that he has lied numerous times.

Funny,your sweetie Hillary is on record saying Intell was flawed which dispells 'Bush Lied'.Bush went to war like anyother commander...with what he had at hand when the decision was made to go.You lied....

And you honestly think that Saddam was more of a threat than half a dozen central African nations that are killing millions a year?

Unoquivicably yes... :mf_boff:

What is the "mission" that we are trying to accomplish.
It would be nice if you two could gain some forsight (and some hindsight, too...so that you can recall the TRUE reasons for what our prez has chosen to do during his reign of terror).

The mission and the plan have been presented several times by several others....I'd suggest the reason you cannot hear what we have digressed is because you have cotton in your ears,so you can only hear what you want to hear....not the truth. :unsure:

If either of you gave a damn about the troops you'd be calling for a strategy and not just praising unending tactics.

Hey Dude...you can't fire that gun with flowers sticking out the barrel....

 

[Ch. 12]

Well Dude...when Iran goes nuclear.....they may intimidate the Saud's more than Saddam ever did....and by then,your kind will have relegated us into political oblivion because you just didn't have the Balls to stick it out.
I'd feel safe saying Canada will still sell us oil,but don't trust Hugo.....and the Afrikkans are always striking for one reason or another...so where you gonna get your Lube Job?

Guess it's a good thing that Canada and Mexico are #s 1 and 2...accounting for over 1/3 of our supply. Hey...I've got a question for you? How stupid is it to not try to find an alternative. Sure...I remember Bushie's speeches stating how he'd like to bolster the research of alternatives but I also remember the Bush administration recalling all electric cars earlier this decade. Check it out. Oh yeah...and his empty speeches about cutting our oil dependency are crazy when you then look at the budget and realize that he has cut research spending, greatly added to Iraq spending, and put us seriously in debt. Only thing worse than "tax and spend Dem" is "cut taxes for wealthy and spend even more Repub".

You know,i'd bet my left nut if one of the Clintons or Gore or Kerry made the decision to do Iraq,you'd be doing backflips defending their choice...and don't boosheet me here...

It's fun to deal in hypotheticals, isn't it? I would say that you would be minus a nut...and that wouldn't be good b/c I like you with as nuts as you are. Truth is...Clinton, Gore, and Kerry didn't have a score to settle. And I would think that they would "save" an African nation with an exponentially worse genocide problem than Iraq. Oh...but wait...we didn't go to Iraq to "free" them, did we? We went b/c they were manufacturing WMDs. Just like Iran now, right? Killing our own soldiers to increase the Prez's poll numbers is genocide...and it's happening in our own country!

Funny,your sweetie Hillary is on record saying Intell was flawed which dispells 'Bush Lied'.Bush went to war like anyother commander...with what he had at hand when the decision was made to go.You lied....

Glad that you have decided who I support and don't support. Shows your ignorance. But back to it...she said that the intelligence that Congress was presented with was flawed. Even the intel agencies have said that the case presented by Bush, Cheney, and Powell was not the data that they provided to them. Seems there was a little bit of streeeetching going on when the tale was told...hence "flawed intelligence".

Unoquivicably yes... :mf_boff:

Guess you'd better read up on what is/has been going on in Africa, then. Millions more are being raped and murdered in Africa. Oh...but I guess that since there isn't an ample amount of oil in central Africa (and no African ruler tried to poison Daddy) that we were better off clearing up the "WMD" issue in Iraq. At least we now know the answer to that one...only cost thousands of lives to figure out that the answer was "no".

The mission and the plan have been presented several times by several others....I'd suggest the reason you cannot hear what we have digressed is because you have cotton in your ears,so you can only hear what you want to hear....not the truth. :unsure:

All that I have EVER heard from you and your gang (and this is a stretch b/c I have to piece it together from fragments since nobody is bold enough to present a long-term idea) is that we are in Iraq until we have finished training the military and they take over. But wait...what is this that I now hear from your arguments? That we can't leave even then b/c evil Iran and Syria will come in the second that we do leave? That is what you say, right? Well then, Virginia, since your plan A obviously won't work anymore, what are the victory conditions. Oh wait...that was plan B ...we already accomplished the first mission. So what is plan C? And why should the American public buy into this one when there are already two strikes (and several foul balls).

Hey Dude...you can't fire that gun with flowers sticking out the barrel....

Great avoidance once again. "rah rah...I support the troops...but I don't support any effort to protect them or create a viable plan for fixing what we have screwed up" That pretty much sums it up and is why you have nothing to say on the matter. Again...the TACTIC to send many more soldiers with no STRATEGY to "win" this thing (mostly b/c we cannot define what "winning" means) is just marching them aimlessly and needlessly into harm's way. But what do you care? Do you really think that putting an "I support the troops" bumper sticker on your car is helping?

 

[delldude]

How stupid is it to not try to find an alternative.

Real tough when oil and the auto industry have bought up most of the alternative patents.....duh?

We went b/c they were manufacturing WMDs.


No,IED's...

Guess you'd better read up on what is/has been going on in Africa, then.

Isn't that the place Al Gore is on record saying to look the other way as far as healthcare and medicine go...you know when he was talking about mouths to feed and the world being over populated?had something to do with the UN and some world food thingy when he was a heart beat away.

All that I have EVER heard from you and your gang (and this is a stretch b/c I have to piece it together from fragments since nobody is bold enough to present a long-term idea) is that we are in Iraq until we have finished training the military and they take over.

Its been hashed over quite a bit,but like I said.....it ain't what you're interested in hearing...besides,I'm a mechanic,not some statesman.

"rah rah...I support the troops...but I don't support any effort to protect them or create a viable plan for fixing what we have screwed up"

You should be ashamed making statements like this...you sound like Murtha and Pelosi....

 

[Ch. 12]

Real tough when oil and the auto industry have bought up most of the alternative patents.....duh?

Huh...guess there is no hope then. Oil/Auto industry control the world. They own all forms of electricity and fuel. I'll be damned.

No,IED's...

Oh...right. New buzzword for "there were no WMDs". The new acronym to which you refer actually defines the explosives developed by Iraqis to combat US troops that have set up residence in the country and have spurred a civil war. But why get caught up in timelines...they would only hurt your attempts to defend a war that we started for something that did not exist.

Isn't that the place Al Gore is on record saying to look the other way as far as healthcare and medicine go...you know when he was talking about mouths to feed and the world being over populated?had something to do with the UN and some world food thingy when he was a heart beat away.

Not sure of what you speak of here but I don't think Al Gore had ever been in the position to "free" the peoples of Darfur, etc. Just another of your many attempts to divert the conversation...which was about why Bush chose to "free" a region whose genocidal problems pale in comparison to many other regions.

Its been hashed over quite a bit,but like I said.....it ain't what you're interested in hearing...besides,I'm a mechanic,not some statesman.

Again...nice avoidance. I told you the position that I have heard from you and why it isn't valid b/c you have since contradicted yourself. So what will it take to "win"? You say that we're in it 'til we win it yet there are no victory conditions. Surely somebody had to determine tangible and realistic victory conditions, right?

[

You should be ashamed making statements like this...you sound like Murtha and Pelosi....

You should be ashamed of yourself for making hollow attempts to "support" the troops though your position clearly devalues their worth. I am PROUD of my statements b/c I actually give a crap. I won't run like Kerry when you tell me how ashamed I should be.

 

[delldude]

Huh...guess there is no hope then. Oil/Auto industry control the world. They own all forms of electricity and fuel. I'll be damned.

Look into it....they usually lean on the inventor and they sell out for a nice tidy wad and live Fat,Dumb and Happy for the rest of their days.What the hell,they got their cash.Guess not too many humanitarians out there anymore.
Do it for mankind,son.....

The new acronym to which you refer actually defines the explosives developed by Iraqis to combat US troops that have set up residence in the country and have spurred a civil war.

Really? I didn't realize that.....thanks a lot.

Not sure of what you speak of here but I don't think Al Gore had ever been in the position to "free" the peoples of Darfur, etc.

No,you tried to throw some bling bling into the mix by saying we should save Africa....Yeah,they got problems but I thought the sacred UN was the solution,afterall its a lib institution,it should be able to fix it.
Besides,last time we did anything in Africa,all you Lib's did a waa-waa just like Iraq.
Somewhere Gore is on record making a statement about world hunger and just leaving it be in Africa and it will take care of itself in due time.You know,thin out the herd....

I told you the position that I have heard from you and why it isn't valid b/c you have since contradicted yourself.

It never matters what I have posted because its you rway or the highway,no ifs ands or buts.

You should be ashamed of yourself for making hollow attempts to "support" the troops though your position clearly devalues their worth.

You are the one making hollow accusations.
Have a nice day.

 

[local 12 proud]

So what will it take to "win"? You say that we're in it 'til we win it yet there are no victory conditions. Surely somebody had to determine tangible and realistic victory conditions, right?

The conditions were determined, as usual you choose to ignore the facts.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/ira...gy_nov2005.html

We know what your strategy is (cut & run), after all in your own words its "unaccomplishable".

Go ahead and spout off like your likeminded liberal talking point looney left band of defeatist brothers who proclaim to 'support the troops, but not the war'. The Men and Women fighting this war realize your voice is a minority and are determined more than ever to achieve VICTORY.

 

[Ch. 12]

The conditions were determined, as usual you choose to ignore the facts.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/ira...gy_nov2005.html

No...I pay attention to them. This is the "long term strategy" according to your link: "Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism." Now...I have since seen you and others (ok...ONE other) post that the minute we leave, Iran and Syria will overtake Iraq. So combine that with the fact that there is now a civil war in the country and you tell me how feasible this strategy is. And this is a subjective measure...not a quantifiable "victory condition". In other words...there is no exit.

We know what your strategy is (cut & run), after all in your own words its "unaccomplishable".

Go ahead and spout off like your likeminded liberal talking point looney left band of defeatist brothers who proclaim to 'support the troops, but not the war'. The Men and Women fighting this war realize your voice is a minority and are determined more than ever to achieve VICTORY.

I am glad that you have a toucan as your avatar b/c apparently all that you can do is mimic and repeat lines that I have said. I've never said "cut and run" or anything that came close (in fact I have posted and re-posted my detailed thoughts...to which you never had any response of your own...and none of my thoughts were to exit now). Your moronic ignorance shines brightly (I know...oxymoron that you are ignorant and shine brightly) when you make your ASSumptions that have been contradicted over and over. You can only see the world through sides of the aisle...and that is why you cannot come up with an idea that bridges the aisle. On the other hand...what I have written about Iraq several times now has pieces that both sides agree with and that both sides disagree with. I can think for myself.

Go put on another bumper sticker. In the meantime, I'll speak up for those that have a real concern for the welfare of our current and future soldiers. And you'd better rethink the "minority". Very few of the deployed that I have known were skipping to their transport...and their families DEFINITELY were not skipping, either. The troops have signed up to follow the executives orders...don't fool yourself by thinking that since they are in Iraq that they have chosen to be. I'm glad that you sleep well at night knowing that you have a bumper sticker. I don't b/c I have friends that are affected by this mess...and no bumper sticker is making them feel any better.

 

[delldude]

In other words...there is no exit.

You just too naive to see it bucko

Prep your fanny for an Iran gig sometime this spring....all we need is proof positive they got nuclear ambitions and/or supplying Iraq insurgents with weapons that are killing the soldiers you so despise....And if you've been following the weapon trail.....US is already laying out the evidence.
Yep,we there for the longterm Virginia.....your plan was flawed from the gitgo.We be there to stage for the Big Dance....the one in that book you lib's want to keep out of government

Again...nice avoidance. I told you the position that I have heard from you and why it isn't valid b/c you have since contradicted yourself.

Lay some that higher atmosphere global warming poo poo on me that was/is disprooven before that you never responded to Ace..... :mf_boff:

You can only see the world through sides of the aisle...and that is why you cannot come up with an idea that bridges the aisle.

Duh...you the crowd with those rose colored glasses,Pal...

 

[local 12 proud]

No...I pay attention to them. This is the "long term strategy" according to your link: "Longer term, Iraq is peaceful, united, stable, and secure, well integrated into the international community, and a full partner in the global war on terrorism." Now...I have since seen you and others (ok...ONE other) post that the minute we leave, Iran and Syria will overtake Iraq.

typical spin job...what was said is if we abandon Iraq before the ISF and government can take full control of the sitiuation, then yes Iran and Syria will have their way with Iraq.

You can only see the world through sides of the aisle...and that is why you cannot come up with an idea that bridges the aisle. On the other hand...what I have written about Iraq several times now has pieces that both sides agree with and that both sides disagree with. I can think for myself.

Bridge the aisle?... one side wants to complete the mission and declare victory, while the other (your) side wants to tie the troops hands by cutting funding and declare to the world its a losing battle that we need to withdraw from on some set in stone time line.

Go put on another bumper sticker.

stealing KC's one liners now huh?

In the meantime, I'll speak up for those that have a real concern for the welfare of our current and future soldiers.And you'd better rethink the "minority". Very few of the deployed that I have known were skipping to their transport...and their families DEFINITELY were not skipping, either.

cindy sheehan does'nt represent the majority.

The troops have signed up to follow the executives orders...don't fool yourself by thinking that since they are in Iraq that they have chosen to be.

what a moronic statement...

I guess someone forgot to tell that to the ALL VOLUNTARY MILITARY enlistees.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/

I'm glad that you sleep well at night knowing that you have a bumper sticker. I don't b/c I have friends that are affected by this mess...and no bumper sticker is making them feel any better.

you self righteous mental midget, we're all affected by this mess its just that some of us actually realize that WAR does'nt come without a price tag.

 

[delldude]

You know it is a terrible thing to think...but I wonder what the outcome would be with Murtha and Pelosi on their Liberal Jihad against the war(but supporting the troops ) and cutting monies while our Boys are out in front and have their assses on the line...middle of a very bad firefight and the budget cuts gets a platoon or two eliminated because they didn't have air support or ammo or tanks? Wonder how the F**K they'll spin that?


Thats what the unintended Liberal Consequenses will be....

 

[Seatacus]

some of us actually realize that WAR does'nt come without a price tag.

You're right,WAR does'nt come without a price tag. When anyone goes to war they should be willing to spend what it takes to win. If congress was willing to send troops in 2002 they should have been committed to win.

They shouldn't have some set amount of casualties or budget that when reached they start feeling like it isn't worth it. If that's the way they feel they should have said so in 2002.

Imagine if they said we will only sacrifice 3000 soldiers for this war and when we get to that amount we quit.

 

[delldude]

You're right,WAR does'nt come without a price tag. When anyone goes to war they should be willing to spend what it takes to win. If congress was willing to send troops in 2002 they should have been committed to win.

They shouldn't have some set amount of casualties or budget that when reached they start feeling like it isn't worth it. If that's the way they feel they should have said so in 2002.

Imagine if they said we will only sacrifice 3000 soldiers for this war and when we get to that amount we quit.

They didn't know then what they know now.... Actually,I could dig going back knowing what I do now...

Wheres Hillary? :mf_boff:

 

[delldude]

But wait...what is this that I now hear from your arguments? That we can't leave even then b/c evil Iran and Syria will come in the second that we do leave? That is what you say, right?

Now...I have since seen you and others (ok...ONE other) post that the minute we leave, Iran and Syria will overtake Iraq.

:huh:

Wheres Ch 12 when you need him?

U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann claims to know of a plan, already worked out with a line drawn on the map, for the partition of Iraq in which Iran will control half of the country and set it up as a “a terrorist safe haven zone†and a staging area for attacks around the Middle East and on the United States.

“Iran is the trouble maker, trying to tip over apple carts all over Baghdad right now because they want America to pull out. And do you know why? It’s because they’ve already decided that they’re going to partition Iraq.

And half of Iraq, the western, northern portion of Iraq, is going to be called…. the Iraq State of Islam, something like that. And I’m sorry, I don’t have the official name, but it’s meant to be the training ground for the terrorists. There’s already an agreement made.

They are going to get half of Iraq and that is going to be a terrorist safe haven zone where they can go ahead and bring about more terrorist attacks in the Middle East region and then to come against the United States because we are their avowed enemy.â€

OOP's shes a Republican....

Lets open a dialoge with these people