Although very little info is released, the battle for gate space at Love Field continued this week between Southwest and Delta.
Southwest, Delta air lines back in court Monday...
Southwest, Delta air lines back in court Monday...
Dallas Love Field
- Thread starter WNMECH
- Start date
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
It's been a trickle of news... DMN killed off the blog format that Terry Maxon started, which makes it harder to find updates.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2016/09/26/leases-indecision-bible-learned-mondays-love-field-gate-hearing
This quote goes to the position I've held for years... it's a property rights argument, and DL is a freeloader...
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2016/09/26/leases-indecision-bible-learned-mondays-love-field-gate-hearing
This quote goes to the position I've held for years... it's a property rights argument, and DL is a freeloader...
More figures after 2 years lift of W/A. Interesting how it dropped between Q4 of 15 to Q1 of 16.
Still wondering if GK will go after the international restrictions once our international travel gets bigger and ironed out? Or maybe the 20 gate restriction with help and support from other airlines to get er done. Pretty sure the focuss will remain on the 50 added destinations in 10 years before he would entertain going after the W/A again.
U.S.
Love Field soars in post-Wright era | Economic Snapshot
Still wondering if GK will go after the international restrictions once our international travel gets bigger and ironed out? Or maybe the 20 gate restriction with help and support from other airlines to get er done. Pretty sure the focuss will remain on the 50 added destinations in 10 years before he would entertain going after the W/A again.
U.S.
Love Field soars in post-Wright era | Economic Snapshot
Here's another update on the Love Field "Battle for the gate" Delta once again is allowed to stay through until trial is done. The Judge did state that Delta will have a slight chance of winning therefore he allowed them to stay in case they do. Now, what about all those flights that SWA has NOT been able to fly due to Delta trespassing at gate 15? If Delta get's removed in the final trial rulings does SWA have a legit suit against Delta on the loss of earnings during the time frame since 2014? It could be as much as 4-6 flights per day for the last 3 years and this could get expensive.
Delta Air Lines can stay at Love Field for now, federal appeals court rules - Dallas News
Delta Air Lines can stay at Love Field for now, federal appeals court rules - Dallas News
jimntx
Veteran
Seems to me that the Federal courts are playing kick the can with this issue. "You can stay because there's a slight chance you may win?" That precedent could apply to every lawsuit ever filed in any court. Do they really want to go in that direction? The courts would be backlogged into the next century.
I have heard that if Delta wins this suit and gets to remain at LF without leasing a gate, SWA will be eye balling some other airports where it is too hard to get in. Basically SWA will pull a Delta move at many airports where it's too hard to get in. A Delta win here over the gates at LF will set the practice of future moves. And your correct about the backlogged courts in the future...
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
That depends on how hard WN is willing to fight this. What airports could they really try to pull that at? JFK? LGB? Where are they locked out because of no room at the inn?
I don't think DL deserves to get the space for below market cost (and the sale from UA set the market price...), but I don't see WN being willing to lose money just to make life difficult for DL.
I don't think DL deserves to get the space for below market cost (and the sale from UA set the market price...), but I don't see WN being willing to lose money just to make life difficult for DL.
Well apparently you do not realize how much SWA has already spent over these gate(s). I would not put it pass SWA if they have reached 200 million plus by now.
Delta had it's chances in the very beginning and failed to move on it. After that VA was awarded 2 gates because they met the criteria that was laid out by the DOT. Delta did not meet the criteria as they are not an LCC. What really surprised me and still does to this day is that JB and Spirit did not throw their names in the hat for the gates.
Any airports anywhere. If Delta wins this suit it will effect future rulings and filings.
Delta had it's chances in the very beginning and failed to move on it. After that VA was awarded 2 gates because they met the criteria that was laid out by the DOT. Delta did not meet the criteria as they are not an LCC. What really surprised me and still does to this day is that JB and Spirit did not throw their names in the hat for the gates.
Any airports anywhere. If Delta wins this suit it will effect future rulings and filings.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
No, it won't set a precedent, since DAL is the only gate capped airport by Federal law. The "no room at the inn" situation just doesn't happen very often, and where it does, there are usually a couple city owned gates where access can be worked out.
Make no mistake - DL doesn't deserve accommodation at WN's expense. They did have opportunities to directly sublease space from UA and passed on it.
Jim, I don't see this as kicking the can. The history of lawsuits on DAL prove that you can't make a decision which isn't bulletproof for appeals and follow-on lawsuits. I suspect when this door is closed, it's locked.
Make no mistake - DL doesn't deserve accommodation at WN's expense. They did have opportunities to directly sublease space from UA and passed on it.
Jim, I don't see this as kicking the can. The history of lawsuits on DAL prove that you can't make a decision which isn't bulletproof for appeals and follow-on lawsuits. I suspect when this door is closed, it's locked.
SharoninSAT
Veteran
Here's the latest Q&A article on DAL…
Love Field Aviation Director: 'No chance' of international flights or further expansion.
03/16/2017
Dallas Business Journal
Passenger traffic, the number of flights and destinations, and revenue from airport parking, restaurants and shops has soared at Dallas Love Field in the more than two years since the lifting of Wright amendment restrictions.
“The amount of traffic has exceeded everyone's expectations,” Love Field Aviation Director Mark Duebner told the Dallas Business Journal in a recent interview.
The number of boardings alone has grown from 4.9 million in 2014 to 7.3 million in 2015 and 7.9 million last year. That's still roughly a fourth of the approximately 33 million boardings at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, but that's exactly the way city leaders and airport officials want it, so as to protect the economic engine that DFW Airport is for the region.
Love Field's passenger traffic surged as Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) added batches of new destinations in the year after the Wright amendment, and it has continued to grow since. Meanwhile, Southwest, the airport's 800-pound gorilla with 90 percent of the traffic and 18 of the airport's 20 gates, is duking it out in court with Delta Airlines for sole access to the one gate that Delta is now authorized to use.
In this Q&A, part one of two with Duebner, he talks about the impact of the Wright Amendment and why Love Field is close to being maxed out.
How has the airport been affected by the expiration of the Wright Amendment?
We opened the first 12 gates of the new terminal in April 2013. The Wright Amendment restrictions were phased out starting when the Wright Amendment Reform Act passed in 2006. That regulation is what caps us at 20 gates, and we are not allowed to do international service from here. But the restriction of no nonstop flights beyond the contiguous states and Alabama, those restrictions were set to expire on October of 2014. So now we operate somewhat constrained. We're not fully set free. We still have the 20-gate restriction and we're not allowed to do international flights out of Love Field, but all domestic nonstop flights are available. We serve 50 nonstop destinations right now.
What are the chances of removal of the restrictions on international destinations or lifting the 20-gate cap?
There was something put in place at the time the legislation went into effect called the five-party agreement. The five parties are the cities of Dallas (which owns Love Field), Fort Worth, DFW International Airport, Southwest Airlines and American Airlines. That agreement is explicit, and it says none of those five parties can advocate or do anything to try to change the agreement, including the 20-gate limitation. The city (of Dallas) is not advocating for any changes. We've come to an agreement and we're going to stick to that agreement. I think there is no chance of that limitation being removed.
What if the business community, through an organization like the Dallas Regional Chamber or North Texas Commission, advocated for it?
We're pretty small, but we're an urban airport. We have very big institutions on all four sides. There is no way for Love Field to expand. The gates are limited and we're at the max for gates. And we're an urban airport and our activity does have an impact on our neighbors. A big part of that 20 gates as the number they arrived at was based on what they felt like Love Field would have grown to or what the noise impact was when Love Field used to have 32 gates. So I don't think there is much appetite for Love Field to have a lot more activity because we're right in the middle of the city, and it will affect our neighbors. The chambers view us as an asset, and we try to be a good part of the community, and I think all the chambers recognize that. And DFW is a wonderful airport. It's been a huge economic engine for the region. Dallas has the best of both worlds. It's nice to have a smaller, convenient airport, but it arguably is much better to have a DFW Airport and what that impact is economically on the region. DFW Airport is really a big deal, and it's really where energy and focus should be for the city and the whole region. They're doing a great job, especially with the international passenger growth and their strategy there. DFW has it going on. We've got a little niche and we're happy to fill that.
All told, how much has the expiration of the Wright Amendment affected your traffic?
From 2014 to 2015, we had a 56 percent increase. For 2016, we had about a 10 percent increase from 2015. So aggregated, it's going to be a close to 70 percent increase in traffic. In 2013, we had 4.2 million enplanements. In 2014 we had 4.9 million enplanements. We jumped up to 7 million enplanements in 2015 (and 7.9 million in 2016).
Does Love Field or do you have an opinion over who gets to operate out of Gate 15 — Southwest or Delta?
No we don't, and there's ongoing litigation about it, so I don't have anything to say about that. The city wants the asset that it owns to be used to its full potential, and that's all we care about.
Most industries find value in diversification. Can an airport be over-reliant on one airline?
Absolutely. Yes. A prime example is Memphis. Memphis was a hub, and overnight with very little warning, one airline stopped using them as a hub and their traffic fell off dramatically. There's always risk operating airports. but given the volatility of airlines, there's no sure bet. It's highly sensitive to the economy, highly sensitive to fuel pricing. The good thing about Love Field is, because it's a convenient airport, if there was any movement by any carrier, the airport would be in a good position to seek new service by other carriers.
Is Love Field overreliant on Southwest, which has 18 of the airport's 20 gates? Is there a risk that we're reliant on one airline?
Absolutely. There are a number of airports that have suffered greatly from drops in traffic because one carrier changed their operational model. What we're focused on at Love Field is diversification of all of our revenue streams. Not just airline and airline-related, but our non-aeronautical commercial development. We also have a very strong general aviation community at Love Field. For the business of an airport, diversification of revenue is as important or more so than worrying about what your carrier mix is. In the 1960s and 1970s, airports got about 60 percent of their total revenues directly from the airlines — their landing fees and terminal fees. That model has changed to where now, airlines represent about 50 percent of most airports' revenue streams. The rest is concessions, general aviation leases, other commercial leases. That's the new model for airports.
What percentage of Love Field's revenue is from landing fees and terminal rents paid by the airlines?
A little less than 50 percent.
What is Love Field's fastest growing revenue stream?
Far and away, parking. Parking revenues, then food and beverage, then probably car rentals. Those are the big ones. Then we have fuel flowage fees and rentals on airport property.. That's how we look at diversifying the airport. We're looking at ways we can maximize our assets.
How long is Southwest locked into terminal leases?
Through 2028. We redid all the leases in 2008 and they were 20-year leases. So all of our leases go through 2028.
When 2028 arrives, do Southwest, American and United have preferential rights to control the gates they now lease, or does it all open back up?
I believe the way the five-party lease reads, if any of the leases terminate because of whatever reason, the agreement says those gates will become common-use gates. The city agrees not to have any more preferential leases for gate space. So I believe in 2028, all the gates will open up to common use, and it will be up to the airport to manage that use. More and more airports across the country are going to common-use gates. It's a shared asset. Common-use check-in kiosks. Technology is changing the way passengers check in and move through airports. By 2028 it's likely to be different.
How so?
You'll have a retinal scan when you walk through the door, your RFID in bag is recognized, you'll throw it on a belt, you'll know where your bag is all the time, you'll walk through a hallway which will be the screening, go right to your favorite concession, and they'll already know what you want to order because you've pre-ordered and it will be ready and waiting for you. RFID is going to be the wave of the future. You will buy a suitcase with an embedded chip, and once the airlines have that number, they'll always know exactly where your bag is.
How about security?
Biometrics are going to replace documents, so pretty soon, it's thumbprint, eye scan, you won't need to show a driver's license, your boarding pass will be on your phone. TSA is trying to find the best way to do screening that keeps air travel safe, but to do it as the least intrusively as possible. There's a lot of smart people working on that.
Love Field Aviation Director: 'No chance' of international flights or further expansion.
03/16/2017
Dallas Business Journal
Passenger traffic, the number of flights and destinations, and revenue from airport parking, restaurants and shops has soared at Dallas Love Field in the more than two years since the lifting of Wright amendment restrictions.
“The amount of traffic has exceeded everyone's expectations,” Love Field Aviation Director Mark Duebner told the Dallas Business Journal in a recent interview.
The number of boardings alone has grown from 4.9 million in 2014 to 7.3 million in 2015 and 7.9 million last year. That's still roughly a fourth of the approximately 33 million boardings at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport, but that's exactly the way city leaders and airport officials want it, so as to protect the economic engine that DFW Airport is for the region.
Love Field's passenger traffic surged as Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) added batches of new destinations in the year after the Wright amendment, and it has continued to grow since. Meanwhile, Southwest, the airport's 800-pound gorilla with 90 percent of the traffic and 18 of the airport's 20 gates, is duking it out in court with Delta Airlines for sole access to the one gate that Delta is now authorized to use.
In this Q&A, part one of two with Duebner, he talks about the impact of the Wright Amendment and why Love Field is close to being maxed out.
How has the airport been affected by the expiration of the Wright Amendment?
We opened the first 12 gates of the new terminal in April 2013. The Wright Amendment restrictions were phased out starting when the Wright Amendment Reform Act passed in 2006. That regulation is what caps us at 20 gates, and we are not allowed to do international service from here. But the restriction of no nonstop flights beyond the contiguous states and Alabama, those restrictions were set to expire on October of 2014. So now we operate somewhat constrained. We're not fully set free. We still have the 20-gate restriction and we're not allowed to do international flights out of Love Field, but all domestic nonstop flights are available. We serve 50 nonstop destinations right now.
What are the chances of removal of the restrictions on international destinations or lifting the 20-gate cap?
There was something put in place at the time the legislation went into effect called the five-party agreement. The five parties are the cities of Dallas (which owns Love Field), Fort Worth, DFW International Airport, Southwest Airlines and American Airlines. That agreement is explicit, and it says none of those five parties can advocate or do anything to try to change the agreement, including the 20-gate limitation. The city (of Dallas) is not advocating for any changes. We've come to an agreement and we're going to stick to that agreement. I think there is no chance of that limitation being removed.
What if the business community, through an organization like the Dallas Regional Chamber or North Texas Commission, advocated for it?
We're pretty small, but we're an urban airport. We have very big institutions on all four sides. There is no way for Love Field to expand. The gates are limited and we're at the max for gates. And we're an urban airport and our activity does have an impact on our neighbors. A big part of that 20 gates as the number they arrived at was based on what they felt like Love Field would have grown to or what the noise impact was when Love Field used to have 32 gates. So I don't think there is much appetite for Love Field to have a lot more activity because we're right in the middle of the city, and it will affect our neighbors. The chambers view us as an asset, and we try to be a good part of the community, and I think all the chambers recognize that. And DFW is a wonderful airport. It's been a huge economic engine for the region. Dallas has the best of both worlds. It's nice to have a smaller, convenient airport, but it arguably is much better to have a DFW Airport and what that impact is economically on the region. DFW Airport is really a big deal, and it's really where energy and focus should be for the city and the whole region. They're doing a great job, especially with the international passenger growth and their strategy there. DFW has it going on. We've got a little niche and we're happy to fill that.
All told, how much has the expiration of the Wright Amendment affected your traffic?
From 2014 to 2015, we had a 56 percent increase. For 2016, we had about a 10 percent increase from 2015. So aggregated, it's going to be a close to 70 percent increase in traffic. In 2013, we had 4.2 million enplanements. In 2014 we had 4.9 million enplanements. We jumped up to 7 million enplanements in 2015 (and 7.9 million in 2016).
Does Love Field or do you have an opinion over who gets to operate out of Gate 15 — Southwest or Delta?
No we don't, and there's ongoing litigation about it, so I don't have anything to say about that. The city wants the asset that it owns to be used to its full potential, and that's all we care about.
Most industries find value in diversification. Can an airport be over-reliant on one airline?
Absolutely. Yes. A prime example is Memphis. Memphis was a hub, and overnight with very little warning, one airline stopped using them as a hub and their traffic fell off dramatically. There's always risk operating airports. but given the volatility of airlines, there's no sure bet. It's highly sensitive to the economy, highly sensitive to fuel pricing. The good thing about Love Field is, because it's a convenient airport, if there was any movement by any carrier, the airport would be in a good position to seek new service by other carriers.
Is Love Field overreliant on Southwest, which has 18 of the airport's 20 gates? Is there a risk that we're reliant on one airline?
Absolutely. There are a number of airports that have suffered greatly from drops in traffic because one carrier changed their operational model. What we're focused on at Love Field is diversification of all of our revenue streams. Not just airline and airline-related, but our non-aeronautical commercial development. We also have a very strong general aviation community at Love Field. For the business of an airport, diversification of revenue is as important or more so than worrying about what your carrier mix is. In the 1960s and 1970s, airports got about 60 percent of their total revenues directly from the airlines — their landing fees and terminal fees. That model has changed to where now, airlines represent about 50 percent of most airports' revenue streams. The rest is concessions, general aviation leases, other commercial leases. That's the new model for airports.
What percentage of Love Field's revenue is from landing fees and terminal rents paid by the airlines?
A little less than 50 percent.
What is Love Field's fastest growing revenue stream?
Far and away, parking. Parking revenues, then food and beverage, then probably car rentals. Those are the big ones. Then we have fuel flowage fees and rentals on airport property.. That's how we look at diversifying the airport. We're looking at ways we can maximize our assets.
How long is Southwest locked into terminal leases?
Through 2028. We redid all the leases in 2008 and they were 20-year leases. So all of our leases go through 2028.
When 2028 arrives, do Southwest, American and United have preferential rights to control the gates they now lease, or does it all open back up?
I believe the way the five-party lease reads, if any of the leases terminate because of whatever reason, the agreement says those gates will become common-use gates. The city agrees not to have any more preferential leases for gate space. So I believe in 2028, all the gates will open up to common use, and it will be up to the airport to manage that use. More and more airports across the country are going to common-use gates. It's a shared asset. Common-use check-in kiosks. Technology is changing the way passengers check in and move through airports. By 2028 it's likely to be different.
How so?
You'll have a retinal scan when you walk through the door, your RFID in bag is recognized, you'll throw it on a belt, you'll know where your bag is all the time, you'll walk through a hallway which will be the screening, go right to your favorite concession, and they'll already know what you want to order because you've pre-ordered and it will be ready and waiting for you. RFID is going to be the wave of the future. You will buy a suitcase with an embedded chip, and once the airlines have that number, they'll always know exactly where your bag is.
How about security?
Biometrics are going to replace documents, so pretty soon, it's thumbprint, eye scan, you won't need to show a driver's license, your boarding pass will be on your phone. TSA is trying to find the best way to do screening that keeps air travel safe, but to do it as the least intrusively as possible. There's a lot of smart people working on that.
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Great article Sharon. Expansion will be extremely hard, but I do think SWA will try something around 10 years out. Just a guess of mine. To this day I remember Gary telling a small group of us in the hangars that they didn't want to push it at this time and he also said there may be another chance at a later date to address the gates and international flights from DAL. Now mind you, this was back on the day before the announcement of SWA fighting for the Repeal of the Write Amendment. just going by what was said, but it was said prior to the 5 party agreement being final.
Well, it's official. Alaska will remain at Dallas Love Field after merger is complete between Alaska and Virgin. May not keep same flights Virgin was flying, but very clear now that they will stay and keep the 2 gates.
Alaska Will Keep Gates at Dallas Airport Dominated by Southwest
Alaska Will Keep Gates at Dallas Airport Dominated by Southwest
And this was one of my guesses. Alaska could have put those gates up for bid to the highest bidder. Although I would still say that Delta could easily get at least one of the gates and could even grow their flights from Love Field. Wondering if after running their schedules for awhile if we will not see these 2 gates go up for bidding, who knows?
Alaska Air Won't Be Bailing Out Southwest Airlines and Delta in Dallas
Alaska Air Won't Be Bailing Out Southwest Airlines and Delta in Dallas
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