Cwa To Discuss Giving Away Your Seniorty

[kao]

"Why should the 10 year guy have to work weekend nights because his/her healthy airline merged with US (on death's door)?"

Because the union at the "death's door airline" has a contract that says if a healthy or unhealthy airline buys them, their seniority must be honored, 100% by the combined company, or there can be no deal. Any other questions?

[post="292510"][/post]​

I choose not to get involved in the unknown---LOL!!! I just have a question...we on the HP side have been told most likely we will have to revote a union in....choose either CWA or Teamsters...I basically try to stay away from debates and after reading the boards it is seems clearly evident that the majority of US either assume or know-which is possible as we do not get told much over here!!-that we will become or fall under the CWA contract...can anyone shed some facts/light on this? Thanks and---riding the fence as I am a very tired, underpaid HP agent!!!! Short staffed ect...

 

[ClueByFour]

And Remember HP is not buying US the investors are, just a few short months ago HP said they would run out of cash.

[post="292720"][/post]​

The HP stockholders get a much larger chunk of equity, and bankruptcy documents (that have been posted here before) indicate that for accounting purposes, the current America West entity is the acquiring and surviving entity.

HP said something in an SEC filing. US is burning the furniture in Chapter 11 trying not to shut down.

 

[barbeetantrums]

That won't happen, the company has to prove under section 1113 c that a whole contract abrogation is necessary in order to emerge from bankruptcy, and I seriously doubt seniority intergration would cause that.

And it will be Date of Hire, watch, wait and see.

And if you are a CSA or RES at HP, you have no contract and will follow what is in the CWA agreement.

The US Airways folks ALL HAVE Allegheny/Mohawk Labor Protection Provisions. And all the US Airways mergers over the years have been Date of Hire.

And Remember HP is not buying US the investors are, just a few short months ago HP said they would run out of cash.

[post="292720"][/post]​

700UW, I'm going to give you a heart attack by saying this but I agree with you. I have heard this nonsense at work and now just recently from NevadaHP that AWA could just willy-nilly abrogate US contracts. "Well if they don't like it, AWA will just cancel their contract!" Yeah. Right! It is way too late in the game for abrogation and can you imagine the ill will caused by such a stunt before the merger. The merger where culture integration that is their biggest worry and they had to pull one of their most capable VPs to oversee the whole train wreck.

CSRs and res will get what they get and they will smile and like it. They will get a crash course in why you need union representation.

 

[700UW]

Well I was involved with the mechanic and related negotiations at US, I know first hand of what abrogation entails and no judge will abrogate a contract because of seniority intergration, that does not fit the critirea.

People dont like intergration but the only true fair was is date of hire, some people will gain, some people will lose and some people will stay the same.

Having been through a merger previousily when PI was bought buy US I made out better, not worse in all aspects.

 

[PHL]

I still fail to see where this is a big issue if the majority of people stay put in their cities. How many HP employees are we talking about that would be effectively bumped down on the seniority list going on the assumption that nobody relocates?

In large HP hubs like PHX and LAS where there are many HP and few US agents, what's the net effect to the overal HP CSR/RES workforce there? I mean, if there are 100 HP CSR/RES employees and 10 US employees in a city, would the net effect to those last 10 HP employees be that far different than what they have now?

 

[deltawatch]

A modest propopsal:     (in spite of the title and the smilie)  this is serious.

A formula giving relative  (ie weighted) percentile to everyone. If you are in the 90th percentile at either carrier, you end up in the 90th percentile at the combined carrier. If you're in the 50th percentile, you end up at the 50th percentile, and so on.
In essence (on a company wide, if not station basis) no one loses, no one gains.

[post="292667"][/post]​

Heres how that plays out ..... 10 year AWA agents, age 30 something get placed in the top 10 % ...... 25 year US Airways agents, age 55ish get placed in the top 10 %.

A couple of years later all the (55ish) US Airways agents retire and then the AWA 30 year olds with 10ish years go to the top of the bidding list for the next 25 years. They will bid ahead of former US Airways agents that have 5 to 15 years more seniorty .... for the next 25 years ..... :down:

 

[ClearedToPush]

First, no one made them work for a younger company, that was their choice.  And second, what were they doing twenty years ago when the US employee was hired?  The 20 year US employees thought they were accruing some valuable seniority when they had to take the crap shifts and vacations.

[post="292589"][/post]​

Just to add some site from an HP employee -
20 years ago I was in elementary school - that is why I was not applying for a job with US Airways

 

[tadjr]

PLEASE POST AND DISTRIBUTE TO YOUR CO-WORKERS
Additional stories are on www.CWA.net


CWA Update - 08/26/2005
CWA'ers met with US Airways and America West management Thursday, August 25, to discuss transition issues...
Present for management were US Airways VP Al Hemenway, US Airways VP Kerry Carstairs, and senior HP and US management including Camille Soto, HP Customer Service, Susan Graham HP Res, Steve Raeder US Customer Service, Ron Harbinson US Labor Relations, Dave Rickard US Finance.
Present for CWA were local presidents Jose Gomez (3641), Pam Terry (2000), Frank Spencer (2000 Sec Treas.), John Hanson (1171), Betty Grove (4404), Jim Drummond (13302 EVP), and Todd Vallin (3140 Exec. Board), Nick Manicone (CWA attorney), and CWA staff Velvet Hawthorne and Rick Braswell.
The subject under discussion is how to provide "seamless service" to customers of the merged airline at stations where both airlines provide service, during the transition period (which, management impied, will run from early October until May of next year). How can both customer service staffs assist one another, avoid confusion on the part of the customer, and avoid a situation where a customer waits in line only to find out that the agent only does America West, or the agent only does US Airways?
The other consideration, of course, is how to be sure agents from both airlines are treated fairly during this process and that their jobs, shifts, pay, etc. are protected.
In a nutshell: Management proposed a fairly complicated dual system in which both airline staffs would be trained to do each other's work, and could be assigned by management to do any of that work, but they would maintain separately monitored shifts, seniority, bidding, pay, and furlough rules.
Management's proposal is that if downsizing occurs (and it will), they would furlough the agents of the airline which cut the flights. Example: if US and HP each had 6 flights a day, and all agents were eligible to work on any of those flights, and US Airways cut one flight, management would furlough US Airways agents regardless of the relative seniority of the America West agents at the station. Management also would have discretion to make assignments between the two groups (including lines of work) without regard to seniority. Our view is that this system is subject to manipulation.
We pointed out that this system would allow:


the furlough of senior, higher-paid employees while keeping low seniority, lower-paid employees, and;
the assignment shifts, days off, duty assignments, etc. on the basis of favoritism instead of seniority, and;
the establishment a very complicated dual bureaucracy to oversee the new dual system.
We suggested a different way to do it. If the goal is to provide seamless customer service (and we hope that's the goal, not just getting rid of agents with seniority) there is a much easier way to do it.


Yes, cross-train and cross-utilize the employees of HP and US;
Duty assignments, shift bids, etc. go by passenger service seniority, just like now;
HP passenger service seniority would count just the same as US passenger service seniority, and vice versa.
Furloughs would go strictly by passenger service seniority, regardless of which airline an employee worked for, regardless of which aircraft or flight was eliminated that caused the downsizing.
We offered those ideas for discussion, expecting management to welcome a more streamlined, efficient way to solve the problem without establishing a dual system. But we were surprised that management immediately balked at our simplified idea and attempted to sidetrack the discussion by raising all sorts of far-fetched objections.
Management's responses were not very encouraging, to say the least, but two points they made were pretty ominous from an employee's point of view:


They refused to agree that furloughs should go by seniority;
They refused to say they would be willing to accept a seniority agreement that would be jointly worked out by CWA and the Teamsters union (who represent HP agents).
Again, management made the discussion unproductive by raising far-fetched objections (see below) to having CWA and the Teamsters work out the seniority issues, even though America West executives had said in our last meeting they would welcome that approach.
Example of a far-fetched objection: At one point management stated they were concerned that CWA and IBT might attempt to "Flush the System." What? We said we don't even know what that term means. Management said it means giving everybody in the combined system, active and furloughed, the right to bid their seniority on any job in the system at any location, and then everybody would relocate to those jobs and the losers would go out to the street. We said we have never proposed, or even heard of, such a nutty system, that the agents would not ever want that to happen, that it would violate every procedure in our CWA contract, and that management was just trying to avoid discussion of our proposal.
To be honest, when management raises wacky ideas like the threat of "flushing the system," it reinforces the view that somebody, somewhere, is trying to stir up and politicize the seniority issue.
What's going on? Why did management balk at discussing our offer of a simpler system for cross-utilization? It could just be that they were unprepared for the discussion; or it could be that they weren't comfortable discussing it without guidance from higher-ups; or it could be that they really want a system that dumps higher paid employees and our simpler system doesn't do that for them.
What next? We are going to write up a very clear and simple proposal for US/HP cross-utilization and seamless customer service based on seniority - including furloughs based on seniority - and present it to management. That discussion will allow us to see if the agenda is really about seamless customer service, or whether management's agenda also includes getting rid of higher salaried employees and replacing them with lower salaried employees.
Bottom Line: We already have a contract that protects our seniority and our scope of work. We are willing to discuss arrangements for better, seamless customer service, but we are not going to make agreements that expose agents to unfair attempts to undermine their job security.


We'll keep you informed of these discussions as they happen.
CWA Local Officers and Staff




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

www.CWA.net
Tell-a-friend!

 

[Doc]

Be aware that U wants us to fight over our unions or maybe eveN not vote because you are so digruntled with the union you have.

REMEMBER IF YOU DON'T VOTE ITS A NO VOTE AND A CUT IN PAY...PERIOD...

 

[Doc]

Because they had the chance to organize a union and didn't!

[post="292514"][/post]​

you don't get something you didn't earn and your not getting it in the chops this is senority period nothing else you wouldn't give me something I didn't earn and you know it.

 

[deltawatch]

In a nutshell: Management's proposal is that if downsizing occurs (and it will), they would furlough the agents of the airline which cut the flights.  Example:  if US and HP each had 6 flights a day, and all agents were eligible to work on any of those flights, and US Airways cut one flight, management would furlough US Airways agents regardless of the relative seniority of the America West agents at the station.  Management also would have discretion to make assignments between the two groups (including lines of work) without regard to seniority.

Our view is that this system is subject to manipulation.

We pointed out that this system would allow:

The furlough of senior, higher-paid employees while keeping low seniority, lower-paid employees, and; the assignment shifts, days off, duty assignments, etc. on the basis of favoritism instead of seniority, and; the establishment a very complicated dual bureaucracy to oversee the new dual system.

We offered ideas for discussion, expecting management to welcome a more streamlined, efficient way to solve the problem without establishing a dual system.  But we were surprised that management immediately balked at our simplified idea and attempted to sidetrack the discussion by raising all sorts of far-fetched objections. 

Management's responses were not very encouraging, to say the least, but two points they made were pretty ominous from an employee's point of view:

They refused to agree that furloughs should go by seniority;

They refused to say they would be willing to accept a seniority agreement that would be jointly worked out by CWA and the Teamsters union (who represent HP agents).

Bottom Line: We already have a contract that protects our seniority and our scope of work. We are willing to discuss arrangements for better, seamless customer service, but we are not going to make agreements that expose agents to unfair attempts to undermine their job security.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

The one thing that is a known fact is that this company and it's Exec's HAVE never and WILL never have the interests of its employees in mind. It has always been a battle to maintain our job, maintain our life, and have any type of dignity while working here. Im glad we have the CWA fighting for us. All of that group of "misfits" from CCY will soon be walking, with their generous severance/bonus package, but until that last day, they will continue to slap us in the face every chance they get.

 

[diogenes]

Well, the new company will have a veep who is adept at 'slap the employees'.

And I am guessing he will.

But keep in mind; HP folks were in the room, and I didn't read where they raised any objections.

The plan is revealing itself.

BOHICA

 

[WestCoastGuy]

Apparently the "new" USAirways isnt going to be on the "Best Companies" to work for in the USA.....or win any of the JP Powers customer satisfaction surveys. IMO, happy employees make for happy customers. But Im just an old front line employee; the kind this company wants to rid itself.

 

[Seatacus]

Heres how that plays out ..... 10 year AWA agents, age 30 something get placed in the top 10 % ...... 25 year US Airways agents, age 55ish get placed in the top 10 %.

A couple of years later all the (55ish) US Airways agents retire and then the AWA 30 year olds with 10ish years go to the top of the bidding list for the next 25 years. They will bid ahead of former US Airways agents that have 5 to 15 years more seniorty .... for the next 25 years ..... :down:

[post="292789"][/post]​

My thoughts exactly............that is why you don't do this "relative seniority" stuff.