Crew Rest

[skyangelnflight]

What amazes me is that AA personnel blame AA/AMR for these crew rest rules when in fact the APFA clearly made a choice to take these crew rest rules rather than other concessions which would have made line flying more tolerable rest wise. As some posters have suggested, some of these claims made be overstated. So blame APFA, not AMR.

A preface to this post, anytime I take a post from one board to another, I remove names. Your thoughts were shared with another group I belong to, here is a reply. Yes, the bubble being burst is yours, not mine, since they are replying to your post, not mine! I already chided the poster for the arrogant remark.

I hate to burst your bubble,(my name was here), but this predicament we find ourselves in is, indeed, ALL because of AA. APFA did not put AA in the position of immediate BK. Nor did APA or TWU. The three unions rallied together to save AA from its demise in BK. And we will all continue to rally together to make the best of a very BAD situation which, quite conceivably, could lead us back to squre 1 - BK. There are NO guarantees.................

Folks, there is no way we could possibly know our futures. Yet, I
sincerely hope that you, ALL of you, will eventually become a part of the solution...not a part of the problem. Just like mandatory
retirement at age 32, weight limits, maternity termination, B-Scale
and smoking on the A/C...this too, shall pass. With work. Lot's of
work. Lot's of VERY hard work. Not only by the leaders but also by
the followers. I've said it before and I will say it again - please -
be a part of the solution, not a part of the problem. The past is
past. Let's work on the future.... Volunteer...just volunteer.
Someone will always be able to use you...........

We're a "UNION." Let's behave like one.

Peace.

 

[skyangelnflight]

This is from the flight service mailing list from Laurie Curtis:

One of the things that we've been getting a lot of feedback about are
layovers under 10 hours. I realize that while there are some flight
attendants that truly appreciate these layovers because they allow
them to spend more time at home; I've also heard that there are some
flight attendants that view them as difficult. In the course of
addressing this issue, we are working diligently with Crew Planning
to see where we can find cost neutral ways to reduce the impact of
shorter layovers.

As we look forward to September, we've already made some progress to
the extent that nearly 77% of all scheduled domestic layovers for
September will be 10 hours or longer. In the international operation,
we'll see the number of layovers less than 10 hours drop from nearly
16% of all trips to just over 7.5% of the schedule.

 

[TWAnr]

Seen posted on another board:

Subject: Our company will not make it.....

I am currently on the sick list.....

I have been physically and emotionally abused by this company....

I have had 4 reassignments attempted in 5 weeks with two being successful...

MY son has been "neighbored" on two occassions because there was no one to take him at the last minute and his dad was flying a trip...

He is now asking me when I will be back and if he will have to spend the night out away from home....

MY t/a was reassigned to overnight with less than 8 behind the door and one leg return..

We got back yesterday morning with the idea that we were finally going home as it was our scheduled day off...

We were notified by agent we were reassigned again to sit over 5 hours and then go to Fresno and return the next evening...

I began sobbing uncontrollably and in front of passengers stated we were being abused and I would be forced on the sick list because I cannot leave my son again....

The mod was notified by the agent that a flight attendant was "falling apart" in front of passengers. She put me on the phone to Abal and he asked me to come to ops so the passengers would not see me.....

when I got to the desk there were 3 frantically assisting other F/a manning problems...

He looked up my record and asked what I want him to do...

I told him I am wiped out physically and mentally and I cannot leave my son again not knowing when I can get back to him....

I am now on the sick list and feel a breakdown is forthcoming...

If you have similar story and wish to convey the serious implications of what this company is subjecting its F/a's too please join up with me for a meeting..

Email me and I will give you particulars...

What a crisis...

Do you think if our company thought for a second we had a viable Union with rank and file support and political clout, this would be going on??? We are unfortunately completely on our own and must do what we can to stop this insanity....

There will be noone getting folks home for the holidays if this continues....

I have already talked to countless F/A's who will be home for the holidays on sick list because they shutter to think what will happen in reassignments...

Please do your part by getting this administration that allowed this OUT!!!!! Also talk to whooever you choose in management but let them know the devastating ramifications of stranding people during the holidays and the effect on AMR's bottom line....

Please respond and please do your part....

I am very tired, depressed and feel completely stripped of dignity and respect....

How sad!!! How could you allow this APFA?????

We have hit rock bottom!!!

We said it all along and here we are!!!!

Thanks

 

[operaations]

I am going to try and make a comment on this subject with out sounding like an insensitive ahole. Number one, if the job you are doing is affecting your quality at home and causing problems you can not fix without being there than I suggest find a job that will accomodate you and your family. It is not up to the company to accomodate you and your family. You and your family come first (and I agree with that). But at AMR the company and uts bottom line comes first. (and I agree with that). That is why I never became a flight attendant because I could not stay away from home from my daughter, and I for one would not want to screw my fellow employees and call in sick to take care of her..............................................And two you need to oust the APFA they are the ones that are screwing you and will continue to do so. They will put up a smoke screen so you cant see the truth. I suggest listening to some TWA people on how you are getting screwed by your union. But I dont blame them if they dont talk to you at all. After all you threw them to the curb like trash and then stepped on them when they were down. The answer lies in truth and honesty. APFA has none of that.

 

[FA Mikey]

Here's a news flash for ya. AA throws people to the street. APFA has never laied off a single flight attendant.

 

[Garfield1966]

Here's a news flash for ya. AA throws people to the street. APFA has never laied off a single flight attendant.

Well, to quote a famous TV actor. "Doh".

The APFA does not run American Airlines and hence they cannot hire or terminate any FA's or anyone else who works for AA for that matter. They only have authority of their own employees.

I believe what the poster was trying to convey was that AMR based the terminations on what the APFA negotiated. So in that regard, the APFA was just as culpable for the terminations if not more so than AMR

 

[AAmech]

Seen posted on another board:

Subject: Our company will not make it.....

I am currently on the sick list.....

I have been physically and emotionally abused by this company....

I have had 4 reassignments attempted in 5 weeks with two being successful...

MY son has been "neighbored" on two occassions because there was no one to take him at the last minute and his dad was flying a trip...

He is now asking me when I will be back and if he will have to spend the night out away from home....

MY t/a was reassigned to overnight with less than 8 behind the door and one leg return..

We got back yesterday morning with the idea that we were finally going home as it was our scheduled day off...

We were notified by agent we were reassigned again to sit over 5 hours and then go to Fresno and return the next evening...

I began sobbing uncontrollably and in front of passengers stated we were being abused and I would be forced on the sick list because I cannot leave my son again....

The mod was notified by the agent that a flight attendant was "falling apart" in front of passengers. She put me on the phone to Abal and he asked me to come to ops so the passengers would not see me.....

when I got to the desk there were 3 frantically assisting other F/a manning problems...

He looked up my record and asked what I want him to do...

I told him I am wiped out physically and mentally and I cannot leave my son again not knowing when I can get back to him....

I am now on the sick list and feel a breakdown is forthcoming...

If you have similar story and wish to convey the serious implications of what this company is subjecting its F/a's too please join up with me for a meeting..

Email me and I will give you particulars...

What a crisis...

Do you think if our company thought for a second we had a viable Union with rank and file support and political clout, this would be going on??? We are unfortunately completely on our own and must do what we can to stop this insanity....

There will be noone getting folks home for the holidays if this continues....

I have already talked to countless F/A's who will be home for the holidays on sick list because they shutter to think what will happen in reassignments...

Please do your part by getting this administration that allowed this OUT!!!!! Also talk to whooever you choose in management but let them know the devastating ramifications of stranding people during the holidays and the effect on AMR's bottom line....

Please respond and please do your part....

I am very tired, depressed and feel completely stripped of dignity and respect....

How sad!!! How could you allow this APFA?????

We have hit rock bottom!!!

We said it all along and here we are!!!!

Thanks

You know I read this and the first thing that comes to mind is maybe this is not the right kind of job for this person? Some jobs are fine when your young and care free but as you mature they just don't fit anymore. If I'm 50yrs old with a back problems and arthritis maybe I should not be a roofer. If your a single parent trying to juggle so many responsibilities maybe you should not be working as a FA. Especially for a broke airline!

 

[FA Mikey]

I cant take it all back to the flight attendant. Yes, we must be flexible at times. But there is no flexibility or accountability by the company. They refuse to work with us. Its far easier to just screw us.

Maybe this isn't the job for this person? That's to close to saying if you don't like it quit. Until they begin to act responsible to basic human needs like SLEEP. Problems will continue. This is not a two or four hour mandatory hold over on your shift. Its a mandatory 3 or 4 day away from home hold over.

 

[operaations]

The contract the APFA negotiated and the FAA mandates what the company can and can not do. Crew sched can not fly you into a 7 day legality. Crew sched can not fly a domestic flight attendant into a 30 hour problem. Crew sched can not reduce your rest past 8 hours. All FAA and APFA contractual rules. Where is the company at fault using the rules to the best of thir advantage set fourth by the government and the APFA.
.
If you can not perform the job required than quit. AA acts on the rules provided. Maybe you should lobby congress and the APFA to get the rest changed and AA will follow those rules. And when we do effectivley you will cry about it. When we find every way possible to utilize the crews effectively you cry louder and louder. It is a never ending whine from the flight attendants. I cant I cant I cant. But you never do anything about it. Cant do it quit ....want to stay fight to have it changed either Keep mr John Ward to the curb and bring in a union that will listen or make him listen. I could care less who is representing you but in my opinion APFA is laughing at you all of you

 

[FA Mikey]

If you can not perform the job required than quit. AA acts on the rules provided. Maybe you should lobby congress and the APFA to get the rest changed and AA will follow those rules.

NO, quitting is a cop out, to easy. I choose to stay and fight. We are lobbying congress for humane government mandated work rules. Hope we get it before something tragic happens due to someone's sleep depravation.

 

[FA Mikey]

Cant do it quit ....want to stay fight to have it changed either Keep mr John Ward to the curb and bring in a union that will listen or make him listen. I could care less who is representing you but in my opinion APFA is laughing at you all of you

You don't bring in another Union. It wasn't APFA that put us in this situation. It was a tag team of john ward and don carty. I am not sure, I buy that "I don't care who is representing you," line. You seemed to carry on about it so much leaves me to believe otherwise.

FYI APFA is a union a thing a non breathing entity. It cannot laugh at me or anyone else. john ward on the other hand different story

 

[Fly]

NO, quitting is a cop out, to easy. I choose to stay and fight. We are lobbying congress for humane government mandated work rules. Hope we get it before something tragic happens due to someone's sleep depravation.

Yeah Mikey! If you are considered negligent driving a vehicle without enough sleep, one could assume that the government considers sleep important. Too bad that airline management doesn't feel the same way.

 

[MiAAmi]

The contract the APFA negotiated and the FAA mandates what the company can and can not do. Crew sched can not fly you into a 7 day legality. Crew sched can not fly a domestic flight attendant into a 30 hour problem. Crew sched can not reduce your rest past 8 hours. All FAA and APFA contractual rules. Where is the company at fault using the rules to the best of thir advantage set fourth by the government and the APFA.
.
If you can not perform the job required than quit. AA acts on the rules provided. Maybe you should lobby congress and the APFA to get the rest changed and AA will follow those rules. And when we do effectivley you will cry about it. When we find every way possible to utilize the crews effectively you cry louder and louder. It is a never ending whine from the flight attendants. I cant I cant I cant. But you never do anything about it. Cant do it quit ....want to stay fight to have it changed either Keep mr John Ward to the curb and bring in a union that will listen or make him listen. I could care less who is representing you but in my opinion APFA is laughing at you all of you

I think you are forgetting that this contract was set up to help keep AA out of BK. This agreement was set up to allow AA to recover from the effects of 9/11, The Bush economy and Managements own mistakes. If flight attendants want to complain about what they gave up so be it. Quit? Why take all the cuts if I'm just going to quit? I find it interesting that the company decided to forgive the 20 million or so dollars that the Pilots owed them, yet turned around and shortened the Flight Attendants rest. If the company is so hard up for money why give back to the pilots ? After all the 20 million or so that the pilots union owed AA was for something that a judge deemed ILLEAL. How far would $20 million go to offset the paycuts of all the other employees at AA? Let alone flight attendants rest! Lets fact it, the pilots got a better deal because the Flight Attendants voted no.

 

[L1011Ret]

The contract was to keep AA out of bankruptcy. True. Now you attempt to make a link between the pilots 20 million and F/A crew rest. There is no link. The pilots had North of 600 million to give and the F/As 340 million. Both had menus to choose from. The 20 million was part of the pilots 600+ million. Chosen by the pilots. The crew rest issue was chosen by APFA as part of their 340 million. They had lots of other choices. AA had nothing to do with crew rest being chosen. NOTHING!

The NO vote was because of the TWA F/A vote. I'm sure the AA pilots will be happy to hear the TWA no vote got them a better contract. Next time you talk to an AA cockpit member, tell them about this and then get back to us on this board. We are eagerly awaiting your report.

 

[Garfield1966]

No. My guess is the pilots got a better deal (if they did) because they are not replaced as easy as you are and have a stronger union as a result of that little fact. My understanding si that the $20 mullion would have put the pilots union in BK and forgiving that debt was a cheap way to buy some good will from them. $20 million in corperate terms is pocket cash.

Good luck with congress. They care less about your work rules than the company you're fighting.