Crew chief seniority for mechanics after merge

[swamt]

Does anybody know how crew chief seniority will be handled after merge, USAir has a crew chief seniority, but aa goes by occupational seniority. How will the crew chief seniority be handled?

Duke, the reason you are not getting your answer is because this is one of the issues that will take "FOREVER" for the TWU and IAM to work out which process will prevail. This will be one of the biggest in-fighters I was talking about. But guess what? The two unions will decide (after months upon months of nego's) which process will be used with no membership input what-so-ever. Then it will be what ever the association decides. Any other "opposites" differences between the 2 contracts, will also be "major" issues and "in-fighting" amongst the 2 unions. Bumping heads for control for these very issues will in fact extend the JOBA being reached in any king of timely manner what-so-ever. No one should ever have their seniority removed, different classification or not, should be flat out seniority for seniority---period...

 

[700UW]

The members are of the NC will negotiate that, and the members will vote upon it and there is a seniority committee already meeting to figure it all out, you do know they already signed an agreement on regards to seniority?

 

[swamt]

The members are of the NC will negotiate that, and the members will vote upon it and there is a seniority committee already meeting to figure it all out, you do know they already signed an agreement on regards to seniority?

Yes they will negotiate it, and it will take forever to come to terms. The members will vote on it when there is something to vote on. This will need to happen where there are othere differences in the two contracts. The agreement you speak of is for merging senoirity, what will be the on going senoirity issue when mechanics become CC's, and when all future CC bid? Right now you cannot answer this question, now can you?

 

[700UW]

It has to be negotiated and voted on.
 
They agreed on date of hire into the classification, all the other stuff has to be negotiated and voted on, so nothing will change till there is a ratified JCBA.

 

[Slopoke]

 We do know what the Alliance put forward as far as blending seniority, where SSN are the tie breakers

 
So, what happens to the current AA folks that has age as their tie breakers?

 

[swamt]

It has to be negotiated and voted on.
 
They agreed on date of hire into the classification, all the other stuff has to be negotiated and voted on, so nothing will change till there is a ratified JCBA.

Exactly. And it will take forever as they (TWU, IAM) will be in-fighting about whicky rules to keep.

 

[swamt]

So, what happens to the current AA folks that has age as their tie breakers?

I rest my case. Start making a list guys, pretty sure there are many more differences...

 

[700UW]

No one at PMUS or PMAA will lose seniority on each other's lists, the ssn is for tie breakers on the combined list.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

My opinion is we keep CC seniority the way we have it now. If we do go with a seperate CC seniority then we have to have seperate CC OT, seperate CC Vaction etc etc. Most CC would not want that and the only CC that want CC seniority are guys who got the job because more senior guys were willing to wait to bid for the job when they could carry the shift they wanted.
Do I know for sure what the Alliance has planned? No. We do know what the Alliance put forward as far as blending seniority, where SSN are the tie breakers, makes no sense to me, and we do know that the intent of the Alliance is to put us all in the IAMNPF, again because they have put out documents stating as much. Just as our input was not requested on those issues we have not had any input on any of the issues we would face should we end up in the Alliance.
I challenge the accusations that I lacked ideas during negotiations, I offered plenty of ideas and still do, but you on the other hand dont have much to offer before, during or after except criticism.

CC seniority should be separate list for bidding on CC jobs only. If no CC bid the jobs then it would go to the highest seniority mechanic. Vacation should always bid by company seniority, not classification (in addition to non-rev boarding).

 

[2ndGENAMT]

I heard that supervisors at USAir assign jobs to mechanics not sure what a lead does.

My "Crew Chief" surfs the web all day and second shift chief comes in on overtime supposedly for continuous improvement functions and surfs the web also!
The AA crew chief is a management position as far as I'm concerned, at TULE anyway.

The entire hierarchy of management seems to work this way as VPs hire/promote Directors who will do as told good or bad and Directors hire/promote the same in Managers, Supervisors and now Crew Chiefs.

 

[swamt]

No one at PMUS or PMAA will lose seniority on each other's lists, the ssn is for tie breakers on the combined list.

700, depending on how it will nego into the new contract there very well could be loss of seniority.  Ex.  30 year man bids and is awarded CC.  5 year man already CC for 3 years.  New bid comes up after both these men are CC's for better days off.  5 year man with 3 years cat seniority, will prevail over the 30 year man that just came into the CC cat.  That sir, is a loss of seniority.  Seniority is seniority, it should follow you everywhere.  That 30 year man should carry his 30 years with him wherever he goes and into any new cat he bids into.  Although no one is technically losing his 30 years of seniority, they are in fact taking seniority away from the man when he starts all over because he bidded into the CC cat and is out bidded by a 5 year man with 3 years CC seniority.   When someone has 30 years with a co. he should never be knocked down just because he has moved into a different cat.  I know, some of us could argue this till the end of time, but I honestly feel your seniority should follow you everywhere.  Do you now see what I mean by loss of seniority?  It is a loss of seniority for bidding processes within a new cat...  Hope this clears up what I meant...

 

[700UW]

If he wasnt a Crew Chief for 30 years then he doesnt have 30 years as a CC, he wasnt getting crew chief pay.
 
So if he hasnt worked in the classification as long then of course he would be junior.
 
So if you have 30 years as Utility then get a mechanics bid, should  you have 30 years mechanic time when you havent turned a wrench?

 

[MetalMover]

700, depending on how it will nego into the new contract there very well could be loss of seniority.  Ex.  30 year man bids and is awarded CC.  5 year man already CC for 3 years.  New bid comes up after both these men are CC's for better days off.  5 year man with 3 years cat seniority, will prevail over the 30 year man that just came into the CC cat.  That sir, is a loss of seniority.  Seniority is seniority, it should follow you everywhere.  That 30 year man should carry his 30 years with him wherever he goes and into any new cat he bids into.  Although no one is technically losing his 30 years of seniority, they are in fact taking seniority away from the man when he starts all over because he bidded into the CC cat and is out bidded by a 5 year man with 3 years CC seniority.   When someone has 30 years with a co. he should never be knocked down just because he has moved into a different cat.  I know, some of us could argue this till the end of time, but I honestly feel your seniority should follow you everywhere.  Do you now see what I mean by loss of seniority?  It is a loss of seniority for bidding processes within a new cat...  Hope this clears up what I meant...

 i totally disagree. Where there are union employees who bid based on their seniority and who value their seniority because seniority is all we have left,  they should begin anew with their NEW classification seniority. That 30 year employee in one classification should get ZERO time in that classification. 
Is that how they do it at SWA? That will never fly at the new AA because it didn't fly at LAA nor LUS.

 

[swamt]

 i totally disagree. Where there are union employees who bid based on their seniority and who value their seniority because seniority is all we have left,  they should begin anew with their NEW classification seniority. That 30 year employee in one classification should get ZERO time in that classification. 
Is that how they do it at SWA? That will never fly at the new AA because it didn't fly at LAA nor LUS.

Yes that is how it works at SWA. And this is why the 2 unions will be deadlocked for some time over this issue.  Think about it. You have 2 complete opposite ways that the 2 unions are operating this very issue.  Who will prevail, why, and what would be the final decision?  The infighting will drag on and on and on...

 

[MetalMover]

Yes that is how it works at SWA. And this is why the 2 unions will be deadlocked for some time over this issue.  Think about it. You have 2 complete opposite ways that the 2 unions are operating this very issue.  Who will prevail, why, and what would be the final decision?  The infighting will drag on and on and on...

I will tell you who will prevail....the TWU members OUTNUMBER the IAM members. SO even if things like this are brought back to a vote, they will get voted down handily.