Congress Or Chaos May Await Us Airways

[BostonTerrier]

Not all of us are in the same position as 320. For many, it truly is a matter of "do I eat this week, or pay my bills?"
So for many, it has come down to the point where the corner we have been placed in is no less comfortable than the alternative, should we seek self help.
Will I place my job in jeopardy? My job is already in jeopardy! Will I lose my medical benefits? I can't afford my medical benefits! Will I damage my pension? What pension! Will I lose my vacation days? Oops, they are already taking them! Will I be able to pay my mortgage? We'be been robbing Peter to pay Paul for months now, and I still have trouble paying my mortgage.

[post="204387"][/post]​

bestservedcold,

Your post is right on point. Well said. Likewise, a sad reflection of the current state many US Airways' employees find themselves in.

At what cost do we save US Airways from itself?

BT

 

[700UW]

I posted this in another topic but it is relavent:

When a contract is abrogated it is no longer in effect, you are not working under a contract, but that has been explained to you numerous times.

What you are describing is Section 6 negotiations which niether party are engaged in.

Your own ALPA lawyer Seltzer wrote a book that describes union's right to seek self-help after a contract abrogation.

When Continental Airlines employees had their contracts abrogated they STRUCK and no judge issued a TRO nor an injuction to order them back to work.

US Airways Vote No has provided you numerous links to provide you with the information that unions are allowed to strike, everything you post is in regard to Section 6.

When a contract is abrogated that is a major violation of the Status Quo.

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

 

[NYPD]

Yo Pilot Boy...

What you don't seem to understand (too many kerosene fumes) is that "agreement" or "no agreement" the company has been on a mission for at least a couple of years now to get rid of maintenance. They have no idea how to run a profitable maintenance division within an airline, so they are just trying to axe the whole thing. They have made it quite clear that they do not want us on the property. The only thing they will "agree" to, is the provision for about 80% of maintenance personnel going away.

With that being so obvious to those in the maintenance department, most have taken the attitude: Stick it! I'm sure that most are also hoping and striving for the demise of this VERY SICK company we call US Airways. While it has been an "ok" job to make a "living wage" for several years, US Airways does not deserve to survive and keep filling the pockets of evil and inept CEO's and VP's at the expense of hard working "working" people who have invested 20, 30, or even 40 years of their lives.

Corporate America continues to rape and degrade the middle class, and it's time for a few people to stand up and resist the rapists whether is does any good or not.

 

[700UW]

Delta made over $300 million doing contract mtc last year.

UAL does contract engine overhaul.

Maintenance is the one of the only departments that can make a profit without a passenger.

 

[deano]

You are a pathetic example of a man captain. I can't believe the owners of this forum let you stay on but throw me "CAVALIER" off. You start more crap then I ever did. Every employee is getting the royal shaft while you preach acceptance or quit. In other words you expect people let these clowns break contracts, break employee's lives by walking all over them and do absolutely nothing except sit there and say, all well this is reality I must accept it. You are a sorry excuse for a man let alone a pilot who commands respect and authority. I retied from this place and moved on with my live so don't tell me to quit or leave. Your posts sicken me knowing there are people such as you among the employees who are getting butchered. It's people like you who keep the Jerry Glass's of the world thriving with power, people like you who feed them instead of taking your rightful place and help squashing such people into oblivion.

You come on here telling the world your woes like that will command respect and they will listen to your insanity. I know all about woes. I have been living them for years captain, years. I will repeat myself, Y-O-U S-I-C-K-E-N Me. I told the owners of the forum I refuse to pay their subscription fees being I was one of the early members so after this subscription expires I can no longer read your posts which is a good thing.

May the Good Lord look down on you and give you your due captain......Curt[/b]

 

[NYPD]

Well said deano.

That pilot boy IS pathetic. It scares me that he is in the left seat of large metal objects hurling through the air at 500mph.

 

[markkus757]

You also forget how much AA makes right now as well. I think they are even trying to expand in order to bring more business in. I unfortunately think that they are trying a short term fix for a long term problem.

 

[700UW]

That is right AA overhauls for lessors and they overhaul the C-17s for the US Air Force.

 

[USA320Pilot]

The economics of the industry have changed and every union has failed to represent their membership. Each union was told over and over as far back as early last year that change was needed. What did labor do?

Nothing, absolutely nothing, and every day the company's financial situation got worse, and so did the company's CBA proposals.

Prior to this round of negotiations, according to the DOT Form 41's, US Airways had the 3rd highest labor expense in the industry. It's obvious to the casual observer that this cannot continue for a failing company and failing industry.

Which legacy carrier is making money and which legacy carrier is not seeing pay and benefits cut to survive? Do I like this? No, of course not, but union resistance is making it worse.

ALPA was a clear case of the "just say no" crowd, with 4 people controlling the entire union, unnecessarily hurting the membership by becoming the first MEC in the history of the union to obtain a new agreement worse than the company's ask. That pattern is continuing with the company's latest public proposal to the AFA and the other unions too.

Every reader of this board was warned over and over again, as Jennyann has implied, but nobody should be surprised because it was a risk each union took.

The key two players, GECAS and the ATSB, and the Bush Administrations, could care less what we think we deserve to earn. They only care about one thing: a mathematical equation where revenue minus expense equals sustained profits.

The new GE deal requires major cost cuts to be approved no later than December 17, which is the same day the S.1113© hearing ends. This all but requires Judge Mitchell to "impose" contract modifications from the bench that day. Furthermore, the company's motion further requires the parties to abide by the RLA, which will also be court ordered and thus would prevent "self help" in the near-term, if not forever.

According to the IAM District Lodge 142 November 12 update, "In 1113© applications, the judge has only two options when making a ruling; reject the company’s application and leave the labor contract intact, or approve the application and terminate the labor agreement entirely. If the judge elects to abrogate the agreement, US Airways would then be free to impose wages, work rules and benefits as they see fit."

Again, there are two choices for the court: agree with the union or company proposal. Considering Judge Mitchell has agreed to vortually every company motion, what do you think he will do, probably no later than December 17 with the GECAS deadline?

Moreover, from the article that started this topic, it is clear the pending "imposed" cuts, which could be worse than today's offer, will be upheld by the courts and the Bush Administration. However, much of what is happening is due to a failure of union leadership to make the difficult choices and to protect their membership from further cuts.

The problem is you cannot fix "stupidity" and every reader on this board has been told over and over again this would occur.

People can post insults, act in denial, refuse to accept reality, and "shoot the messenger", but the facts are union resistance is going to make things worse. Without an immediate TA there will likely be a court or presidential order forcing people to work under "imposed" terms, if necessary, or they can resign. What is really sad is that each union could have had a better deal if they had reached an agreement prior to bankruptcy. Just look at what ALPA's RC4 did to the pilot group and you do not have to look any further.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[700UW]

How blind are you?

A PEB can only be used Section 6 Negotiations (TRADTIONAL BARGAINING), why do you continue to post blantant false information?

Is it a desperate attempt to try to convince the other unions and its members to bendover so you can maintain your six figure income while they decide to pay the mortgage or eat?

What is Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act?
Section 6 is the provision of the Railway Labor Act which tells the carrier and union how to start and continue collective bargaining to amend the applicable rates of pay, rules and working conditions.

It places duty on the parties to meet and bargain in response to the other side’s “notice of intended change†that is, the “Section 6 notice.â€

The same duty applies when the parties are negotiating their initial agreement whether or not the negotiations are formally described as “Section 6 negotiation.â€

What is the “Status Quo†Obligation?
“Status Quo†is a phrase that was developed by the courts to describe the period of starting with the initiation of direct negotiations and include the period of mediation under the auspices of the National Mediation Board.

The Railway Labor Act says that from the start of direct negotiations until agreement is reached or until the end of the statutory negotiating process (i.e. through the end of the “cooling off periodâ€) the carrier cannot alter rates of pay, rules or working conditions -- the “status quo.â€

The courts have interpreted this obligation to apply to both carriers and unions. The status quo obligation also applies while a contract is in effect, between negotiations, by precluding unilateral changes in rates of pay or working conditions, which lack even an arguable basis under the collective bargaining agreement or established practices.

Neither party is in Section 6 Negotiations!

You really need to take your own union's advice!

We urge all pilots to contact their reps or the Comm Center for accurate updates on restructuring negotiations and the activity of other unions. We also request that all pilots refrain from promoting any management anti-union propaganda or chastise other employees in the media. There is little to be gained from such activity other than embarrassment for yourself, your fellow pilots, US Airways, and ALPA.

 

[deano]

You are the epitome of a coward, a living example of what our forefathers fought and died to protect us all from, which is complete and absolute control by a legal system controlled by corporate America. As long as your kind exist corporate America will have their way. People can not be made to go to work and feed the monster you love to worship on here daily. U will implode and the only good thing is you will then be out of your misery.

Curt__ EX cavalier

 

[Justair]

Jennyann:

I do not like this anymore than you do. I am loyal to US Airways and I want to see the best deal possible for the company's employees and due to union resistance, it's only getting worse.

I try to tell the story to the best of my ability because I want you and every other employee to have a secure work place with the best possible pay and benefits.

Best regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="204362"][/post]​

320,

You certainly are a story teller.

Airline employees have the right to work here or leave. BUT they also have the right to join together and fight for their contract and equality.

When 14% of the company (management) takes almost NO PAY CUT (4%increase in May and 5% pay cut in Oct) and the other 84% are FORCED to take 18% to 27% pay cuts plus huge work rule changes. This is not a story. This is the truth.

This is the time were airline employees have the right to join together and fight for their rights. This is not the time to be spineless and walk away.

This is not you battle. We all know your story. A very weak man with a key board and a soapbox.

JustAir

 

[hadEnuff]

The last proposal to the CWA is not bad considering earlier ones. Botton line is we have an opportunity to improve on what was offered earlier. It is like the stock market and you are on the plus side of your investment but if you hold on and the price drops you could end up losing a lot. We should not take the chance because tract record indicates it will not improve and the latest GE proposal put even more pressure on the company to hold cost down. You can stand strong and resist these cost cuts all you want but at some point a reduced cost agreement will be imposed in an effort to keep the company afloat. The more resistence the more likely the Stablization Borad will shut the whole thing down and get the creditors as much as they possibly can and then we can really stand long in the unemployment line. That's the way I see it and the union will not change it. The unions do not own the company and they are between a rock and a hard place. They must cut the best deal possible and cut their losses before the Judge makes a ruling. If it is a situation we decide we can't live with then we should look at other avenues for employemnt. Like it or not those are the facts and time will prove they are undisputed!!!!

 

[EyeInTheSky]

You know at the end of the day everyone has to look in the mirror and say to themselves: How much more am I supposed to give when I've already given so much? There are some that will do anything and give everything just to have something left of a job; then there are the majority who are smart enough to know that no matter what they do it's just not going to get any better. Personally, I'd rather say enough than drag a whole industry down with me just to keep a job. There are other jobs in the world (while they may pay less in the beginning) are a whole lot better than dealing with the crap at US Airways. Sanity versus the same-ole-same-ole...take your pick.

 

[firstamendment]

It looks to me that the unions keep going ....and going ...and going back to the bargaining table over and over with no cooperation by the company...Like the company already has its mind set on going to the judge to throw out the contracts... I have heard no reports that the company has really been trying to negotiate anything....just stalling waiting to go to their buddy the judge Stephen Mitchell...................

Be careful, for what you dream about .......may come true.....

[post="204380"][/post]​

ABSOLUTELY!!! This company loves to instill fear into evryone all the time. Some on these boards wouldn't see the truth if it bit them on the nose.

Hey, UALtech, can I borrow your avitar for this one?