Congratulations NO voters - We have been RECESSED!

[johnny kat]

A320 is making the same very valid point that the 49.9 percent tried to make with their vote on TA 2.

It is truly a shame that ALL US f/as are going to bear the terrible brunt of this disaster that could have been avoided if a few more f/as had listened to what was being conveyed to them in very explicit terms. The writing is on the wall.

I am not quailified to speak about the pilots situation, but I will say this "If I were a PHX based employee, I would be very concerned about being the ultimate scapegoats in all of this".

 

[USA320Pilot]

Whoopee, aren't you "special"? Would you care to provide the FA's with any transcripts you have for that? This isn't a thread for any pilot's, self-worshipping BS. Whatever problems the FA's are working through; I support their efforts and their group's resolve....Period! Leave the FA's to their own business, which is entirely theirs to persue, as they live with the outcome of what courses they choose, not us......and just get a life!

EastUS1,

My comments were written to help some people understand the situation at hand. Last I heard this was an open forum for interested parties to discuss topics of interest. Thanks for your professional comments.

USA320Pilot

 

[EastUS1]

A320 is making the same very valid point that the 49.9 percent tried to make with their vote on TA 2.

I am not quailified to speak about the pilots situation,...

By PitBull's estimation; you're probably a company shill, which, if so, makes you unqualifed to speak about any situation. I don't know you and will not comment further on that. A320 never saw or even smelled a concession he wouldn't have immediately embraced while, in one actual case, literally crying crocodile tears and saying "Armeggedon!...Armaggedon!", I kid you NOT! In my estimation; this is the sort that would be first to run into the nearest bunker at the sound of even a car's backfire. If this is the type of person who's "in the know" umm..."advice" the FA's wish to follow, well may God Help them all! It isn't my business to arrogantly suggest to the FA's what they should now do, but rather to support them and applaud their resolve, as should be the case for any and all pilots...Period! I'm personally proud of them for not just crumbling under to management at the first opportunity, which the likes of A320 so love to do and see done.

 

[EastUS1]

My comments were written to help some people understand the situation at hand.

I guess you entirely missed the part about: "....Would you care to provide the FA's with any transcripts you have for that?" supposed conversation?

"...to help some people understand the situation at hand."...? = Yeah...Right!..as if YOU have any better clue than they themselves, as to "the situation at hand", other than within your arrogant delusions. Again..get a life, if you ever can.

To the FA's: Good luck and best wishes for whatever you good folks see fit to do in the future.

 

[700UW]

EastUS1,

My comments were written to help some people understand the situation at hand. Last I heard this was an open forum for interested parties to discuss topics of interest. Thanks for your professional comments.

USA320Pilot

Just like this huh?

From the July 26, 2002 Charlotte Observer:

UNIONS CAN SINK US AIRWAYS WITHOUT AGREEMENTS FROM ALL ITS UNIONS, AIRLINE'S FUTURE IS BLEAK
In recent days US Airways has made much progress toward ensuring that it will have a future. It has reached tentative contract restructuring agreements with its pilots, flight attendants and the Transport Workers Union, which represents the dispatchers, simulator engineers and flight crew
training instructors, and with subsidiary PSA Airlines' pilots and flight attendants.

The International Association of Machinists (IAM) unit representing mechanics is close to a deal, and the IAM Fleet Service negotiators are making good progress.

But that's not enough.

The Communication Workers of America (CWA), which represents customer service and reservation agents, remains far from agreement with the company. US Airways is on the brink of court-ordered bankruptcy because its situation is "unsustainable." Failure to improve the situation will have devastating effects on employees, customers and companies that depend on US Airways.

The airline has received a "conditional" federal loan guarantee approval, but can't use those funds unless it gets restructuring agreements with all labor groups, in accordance with the business plan submitted to the Air Transportation Stabilization Board (ATSB).

Needed for loan guarantees

Major obstacles remain in the way of a voluntary restructuring.

US Airways may not be able to reach agreements with lenders without tentative agreements with the remaining unions. Unless it has those agreements the company wouldn't get final ATSB loan guarantee approval, government sources believe.

How bad is the situation? The carrier continues to burn cash during what is historically the best-performing time of year. Ten months after Sept. 11, US Airways has not resolved its cost problems, the economy remains sluggish, revenue is off 20 percent and low-cost competitors are aggressively attacking its market share. The industry has not recovered as expected.
Domestic fares are at 15-year lows. Shifts in buying patterns and travel options indicate airlines may never get the revenue per available seat mile they previously enjoyed.

Disturbing reports

US Airways needs restructuring agreements for either a voluntary restructuring or successful bankruptcy reorganization. If the company getsunion concessions and qualifies for government financing, then if it'sforced into bankruptcy, it probably could get in and out of bankruptcy
quickly.

What's disturbing are reports that the CWA leadership is misleading its members. Last Friday, company negotiators asked the union to meet, to try and resolve their differences. The union said its negotiators couldn't meet, but its advisers would be available. However, I'm told that when management tried to schedule a meeting, they were told the advisers had other
commitments. Meanwhile, the CWA issued a report telling its members the company met with the advisers last weekend - which management disputes.

Brinkmanship by any union could push the airline into bankruptcy. It's disappointing to see a relatively small group of employees risk the destruction of a viable company, with a devastating effect on 40,000 employees and their families.

No one can be sure what will happen in bankruptcy, but it's certain that if the company reorganizes and successfully comes out of bankruptcy, the labor groups that don't have tentative agreements with the company prior to bankruptcy will lose.

As in other union negotiations, the parties that reach savings targeted in the business plan will get a bankruptcy protection letter, which protects against even deeper salary and benefit cuts if the company enters bankruptcy.

Some may face pay cuts

If the company files for bankruptcy, workers in labor groups without that bankruptcy protection letter may face deep cuts in pay and benefits, loss of unused sick and vacation time, slashed retirement benefits and a crash in the value of common stock in 401(k) accounts. In addition, they'll work for a smaller airline that will hand out layoff notices at once with no severance pay, and will pay members of unprotected unions significantly less.

Each day the company moves nearer bankruptcy. New chief executive officer David Siegel has brought a breath of fresh air to management. US Airways' best chance to survive is for unions and creditors to bet on him and his team. Employees wanting to keep their jobs must impress upon union rank-and-file employees the importance of ordering union leaders back to the
bargaining table at once, to reach an agreement that is 85 percent of the targeted concessions.

The choice is simple: Either all stakeholders move past their anger, frustration and denial to obtain and ratify restructuring agreements, or the carrier will almost certainly enter bankruptcy.

History has shown only two major airlines have successfully restructured in bankruptcy - not good odds for this company to continue operation.

Chip Munn is a US Airways captain

And your own union had to put out a press release disavowing you and what you said.

 

[N965VJ]

The advisers know better than rank-and-file employees what's the best deal and when to say "yes."

So why not just toss out the voting process?

 

[johnny kat]

EastUS1,

No company shill here. I am a regular line f/a and have been around this place a few years. I do know that sometimes you have to pay attention to the situation you are in. It is always nice when you are assured that things are going to work out just fine. But I do not see that happening in this situation.

I was very upset when the first TA was denigrated by the very AFA leaders that are now trying to get basically the same contract passed. I feel union politics were at play the first time (dumping Flores). Once Flores was gone all of a sudden everyone was in agreement to recommend a yes vote on TA2. What changed? Perhaps it could have been that what Flores was preaching was correct all along.

You guys just love to rip someone up because they disagree with you. I do not pretend to know what the outcome of this will be. Do you know? But I don't see how forfeiting several thousand dollars per year is going to help anyone in this situation. Do you?

You are correct in agreeing to let the f/as work this out without your input. With that said I sincerely hope we do get this worked out soon. And since your mentioning dear Pitbull maybe she can tell us all what we need to do. Because she has proven herself to be so helpful in fleecing everyone.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I find it interesting that certain posters try to shoot the messenger when unions and Demagogues hurt their members.

We have union "leaders" and their message board pundits that only want to look backwards and see their perceived "injustices" of the past. They can't see the light between the trees because their anger obscures the future. This makes them a martyr and a leader of the "crusader of the victims" cause, but that gets nobody anywhere. When a person keeps looking backwards or refuses to become informed they do not see the freight train that is speeding towards them right in front of them, and then, they get blindsided. What do they do next? Blame others for their precieved injustice.

People need to stop looking backwards and stop listening to the Demagogues. People need to look forward and start demanding others do too.

 

[johnny kat]

USA320,

The more I read on this board and the more I observe how some of my disengaged coworkers are swayed by irrational thought from some who should know better, I have to say I agree with your assessment.

The past is over. We must be as discerning as possible in order to pick up the pieces and move on. There is plenty of blame to go around. It is very unproductive for us to be irrational in regards to the current situation.

I just read that the NMB and AFA have met today. Maybe we will get another shot at ratifying a contract before we start being represented by APFA. What a nice Christmas present that would be.

 

[signals]

USA320,

The more I read on this board and the more I observe how some of my disengaged coworkers are swayed by irrational thought from some who should know better, I have to say I agree with your assessment.

The past is over. We must be as discerning as possible in order to pick up the pieces and move on. There is plenty of blame to go around. It is very unproductive for us to be irrational in regards to the current situation.

I just read that the NMB and AFA have met today. Maybe we will get another shot at ratifying a contract before we start being represented by APFA. What a nice Christmas present that would be.

You would agree with him. That is no surprise. USA320Pilot wants the past to be over because it points to his shortcomings. Nice to know that you are a flight attendant. Christmas may not be so cheery if APFA still has that little clause in their contract.

Sorry wouldn't want to spoil the surprise

 

[EastUS1]

...they do not see the freight train that is speeding towards them right in front of them, and then, they get blindsided

You would see so much as a single firefly's lighted tail as a "freight train speeding towards" you and instantly dive for cover, regardless of what depth of manure said dive might well take you into. That assumes that you hadn't the needed time to first wave a white flag, and unconditionally surrender to the ferocious firefly at first sight. Universally advocating such behavior (as you've always done, and yet do) helps no group's issues...ever.

I'll properly leave the FA's to think for themselves and do as they see fit. Their group has historically shown far more grit and judgement than has the "mighty" pilot section.

 

[johnny kat]

I thought I smelled $&%t. Oh, it's only Signals/firedougparker. How is your little cowardly campaign going? I have to ask, what APFA clause are you referring to?

EastUS1, I do not know the history about A320. But, I could really care less. You, Almighty Pilot, would do well to remember that you guys cannot even have a spark of cooperation between members of your own class and craft. You are the laughing stock of the global airline industry. I have seen better cooperation in the middle east. Believe me when I tell you that if you guys (east and west) ever arrive on a trip and are sharing the same cockpit, I will be getting off the trip for safety fears. Nuff said fool.

 

[EastUS1]

You, Almighty Pilot, would do well to remember that you guys cannot even have a spark of cooperation between members of your own class and craft.

I've not the slightest argument there, which is why none of us "Almighty Pilot" types need busy ourselves telling the FA's what they should think or do here. As you're evidently at something of a disadvantage where reading comprehension is concerned; you may have missed that clearly stated notion earlier...."Nuff said fool". I'll cheerfully support the FA group with whatever they choose to do...firstly; by ceasing the clogging up of the thread here.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways AFA Update (The NMB Calls MEC Presidents to Washington, D.C.): December 12, 2012

http://ourafa.org/fe...n-dc/#more-1715

 

[USA320Pilot]

USA320,

The more I read on this board and the more I observe how some of my disengaged coworkers are swayed by irrational thought from some who should know better, I have to say I agree with your assessment.

The past is over. We must be as discerning as possible in order to pick up the pieces and move on. There is plenty of blame to go around. It is very unproductive for us to be irrational in regards to the current situation.

I just read that the NMB and AFA have met today. Maybe we will get another shot at ratifying a contract before we start being represented by APFA. What a nice Christmas present that would be.

Johnny Kat,

It is my hope the NMB can help broker a deal between US Airways' F/As and the Company that gets ratified in short order (especially before a M-B SLI PID).

USA320Pilot