Concessions.....

[umech]

its not the wages, its the excesiveness of manpower to accomplished a task.
the company wants less headcount. the union wants to keep or increase headcount ;during negociations the bottom line is money so the unions will negociate wage concessions in exchange for cut in head count (union fees)but this theory does not work (this is what happened in the negociations during and after U bankrruptcy). were are all this excesses?, we all see them daily == ALLOW ME TO SWEET EXPLAIN THIS-- if usair back in 1987/88 were to adopt PSA contracts instead of the other way arround SOUTHWEST WOULND'T EXIST TODAY.
YES ITS NOT THE WAGES NOR THE SENIORITY ETC,ETC ITS THE HEADCOUNT
AND IF THE HEAD COUNT DONT COME DOWN,,,, WE ARE DONE/// ALL OF US .


UMECH.. love you all.

 

[700UW]

Main Entry: labor union
Function: noun
Date: 1866
: an organization of workers formed for the purpose of advancing its members' interests in respect to wages, benefits, and working conditions

 

[tug_slug]

if usair back in 1987/88 were to adopt PSA contracts

Correct me if Im wrong but wasnt PSA losing money?

 

[delldude]

Correct me if Im wrong but wasnt PSA losing money?

U ceded ground in a fare war against UAL.

 

[Atlantic]

umech,
Good words.
700,
Don't know were you were in late 1978, but in this business ,an A bomb went off.
It took 20 something years to catch up with us, but now we're in the catbird seat.
Old Union demogoguary is not part of the fix here. We'll be done in a heart beat.
And neither is dumb ass managemt.
I haven't seen the plan yet, so lets wait and see.

 

[Old PSA]

tug slug

PS Group was not losing money even with some unbelievable bad decisions on the part of corporate management. The airline operated quite well with excellent customer service. However, the money flowed throught to Group and the airline made a little or lost a little each year. Heck the airline paid Group for its senior management. When Colodny bought PSA, he only got the airline not group. Since group owned most of the aircraft, US made lease payments forever. US also had to buy gas from PS Group for 5 years at some very high prices.

The US retreat from the West Coast was because of the cost associated with the way US did business. That hasn't change even yet. PSA was able to compete quite successfully with Southwest on the coast. Southwest tried service north-south in California but was unable to crack the markets and pulled out and went east (Chicago at the time) looking for softer competitors. After US took over, Southwest returned and United step back in and the rest is history.

While this may seem off the point, it really isn't. When US took over PSA, most of the employees of PSA actually lost a little in terms of pay/benefits except the pilots who made out big time and the mechanics. The way that PSA did business was the driving force for low operating cost not the individuals pay. US management never understood why PSA did what it did and still don't understand what they aren't doing now.

 

[tug_slug]

PS Group was not losing money even with some unbelievable bad decisions on the part of corporate management

Old PSA,
Your absolutely right. Group is what was keeping the airline afloat, if the airline relied soley on itself it would have gone out of business in a matter of years. I remember working at both Lindbergh field and Airmotive before the merger and hated every minute of it. Management’s mentality toward the employees left alot to be desired for. Nothing made me happier the day U came in and kicked the majority of PSA's management out the door.

But it was U's way of thinking that ultimately cost us the west coast.

Old PSA heres something I thought you might like to see. How much do you think this idea cost the airline?

 

[mweiss]

But it was U's way of thinking that ultimately cost us the west coast.

And, if uncorrected, will ultimately cost US the remainder of the US.

Old PSA heres something I thought you might like to see. How much do you think this idea cost the airline?

IIRC, they never did fly the DC-10. They did buy two L-1011s and flew them for a short time between LAX and SFO, but the skyrocketing fuel costs in 1979-1980 made the (admittedly beautiful) aircraft too expensive for the route. I regret I never got to fly on one of those. I heard the piano lounge downstairs was quite something.

I believe it was this discovery that led to the shift of the airline to entirely MD-80s, which were the most fuel-efficient aircraft available at the time.