Commuter policy is broken

[Garfield1966]

The commuter policy is a failure from an operational stand point. There seems to be no incentive for someone to actually make an effort to get their butt to base to do their job. As I understand it, on an OSO day you have to try and get on 2 flights. If you do not get on, "OH well, I tried" and you go home with no consequences other than the loss of a trip that can be made up at a later date via MU/OE or what ever.

God for bid someone actually look at the weather report and see that there is WX in NYC area today and actually get into base the day before. JFK is sitting on about 15 HI3's of people who did not/will not make it to base to do their job and the flights will be going short.

If I pulled crap like that I'd be fired so quick my head would be spinning and rightly so. I can live where ever I choose. I agreed to do a certain job at a certain time. I believe AA has the right to expect me to show up each day. Novel idea huh?

 

[nycaa]

The commuter policy is a failure from an operational stand point. There seems to be no incentive for someone to actually make an effort to get their butt to base to do their job. As I understand it, on an OSO day you have to try and get on 2 flights. If you do not get on, "OH well, I tried" and you go home with no consequences other than the loss of a trip that can be made up at a later date via MU/OE or what ever.

God for bid someone actually look at the weather report and see that there is WX in NYC area today and actually get into base the day before. JFK is sitting on about 15 HI3's of people who did not/will not make it to base to do their job and the flights will be going short.

If I pulled crap like that I'd be fired so quick my head would be spinning and rightly so. I can live where ever I choose. I agreed to do a certain job at a certain time. I believe AA has the right to expect me to show up each day. Novel idea huh?

AMEN!!! Maybe it is about time that AA/APFA do something for those of us that live in our base cities. We are the ones who always have to suffer on days like this and have to make it to work on time no matter what. I guess it is all about commuters.....

 

[Garfield1966]

AMEN!!! Maybe it is about time that AA/APFA do something for those of us that live in our base cities. We are the ones who always have to suffer on days like this and have to make it to work on time no matter what. I guess it is all about commuters.....

Did not even think about that. You as a local who lives where you work (what a novel idea) do not have a get out of jail free card like the people who do not live in base. That would piss me off to no end. Reward those who fail to meet their job obligations and punish whose who do meet their requirements. If that is not twisted I don't know what is.

 

[L1011Ret]

Did not even think about that. You as a local who lives where you work (what a novel idea) do not have a get out of jail free card like the people who do not live in base. That would piss me off to no end. Reward those who fail to meet their job obligations and punish whose who do meet their requirements. If that is not twisted I don't know what is.

If it needs fixing, it can be on the table for negotiations...

 

[Winglet]

The commuter policy only applies to commuting on AA airplanes. It does not apply to commuters who have to commute on other airlines.

Out of what percentage of commutes is the commuter policy invoked to the benefit of the commuter???? Is it a operationally significant number, or are you just bleating as a management shill?

Or maybe Arpey can just demand that all employees live in-base. That'd be good for retention. I've got no problem with that, but if you're going to make commuters live in NY or Miami, they're going to want about a 100% pay hike to break even on the absurd cost of living and quality of life.

If you get called on an off-day to cover flying during a weather event, you don't have to answer the phone.

 

[nycaa]

The commuter policy only applies to commuting on AA airplanes. It does not apply to commuters who have to commute on other airlines.

Out of what percentage of commutes is the commuter policy invoked to the benefit of the commuter???? Is it a operationally significant number, or are you just bleating as a management shill?

Or maybe Arpey can just demand that all employees live in-base. That'd be good for retention. I've got no problem with that, but if you're going to make commuters live in NY or Miami, they're going to want about a 100% pay hike to break even on the absurd cost of living and quality of life.

If you get called on an off-day to cover flying during a weather event, you don't have to answer the phone.

The majority of commuters are able to use AA and take advantage of the policy. The issue is not that they live out of base, its that everything is done for them. Those of us who live locally have to get to the airport no matter what the roads are like. Then of course the commuters want and get the trips built a certain way. Let's just be fair about it. Those of us that live at base deserve the same consideration. Commuting is a choice, why do those of us that live at base have to pay the price for it.

 

[Garfield1966]

The commuter policy only applies to commuting on AA airplanes. It does not apply to commuters who have to commute on other airlines.

Out of what percentage of commutes is the commuter policy invoked to the benefit of the commuter???? Is it a operationally significant number, or are you just bleating as a management shill?

Or maybe Arpey can just demand that all employees live in-base. That'd be good for retention. I've got no problem with that, but if you're going to make commuters live in NY or Miami, they're going to want about a 100% pay hike to break even on the absurd cost of living and quality of life.

If you get called on an off-day to cover flying during a weather event, you don't have to answer the phone.

You are obviously new here because most here know I'll throw AA under the bus just as easily as I'll throw you under it. I have no loyalties.

Why don't you look at open time for tomorrow and look at the flights that went out short staffed today before you lip off and sound like a union puke who does not wish to hold people responsible for anything.

This has nothing to do with a day off. That would be called MU/II. This does have to do with line holders on a seq and not showing up to base to do ones job. No one is making any one take the job. If you want to live in the ant-arctic then go right ahead. Just get to base for your seq. Try looking at the WX channel and if you see WX coming, get your butt to base. What is so hard to figure out. Of course if there is no incentive to get to base to do your job (like loosing your job) then why bother showing up. Standby for 2 flights you know you wont get on and your are scott free while NYCAA lives in NYC and actually has to get to base because he is responsible and lives where he works.

Every commuter I spoke with today was commuting on AA.

 

[jimntx]

I'm not excusing people who do not get to work, but as a commuter to STL, the company makes it hard to impossible at times. Take for instance last Tuesday...

There was snow in St. Louis; so, around 12 noon, the company cancelled every single flight from DFW to STL beginning at 2pm for the rest of the day. Now how is a commuter who was going to fly up Tuesday afternoon for a Wednesday morning trip plan for that action by the company. All afternoon/evening flights showed as operating on schedule at 11:30am. At 12 noon they were all cancelled.

By the way, when I saw that the AA flights cancelled, I called Southwest and flew up on their 5:15pm flight. All of their flights from DAL to STL operated that day.

If the company didn't cancel flights willy-nilly or close the ramp at DFW with a heavy dew, the commuter "problem" wouldn't be quite as bad as it is.

 

[Garfield1966]

No one is every happy. We XCL flts a few hours out people are pissed that we did not XCL the day before. We XCL the day before and people are pissed that we did not XCL a few hours out. Can't freaking win.

There was supposed to be 3-6 inches of snow in DFW (it did not happen) and there was supposed to be a lot of snot in STL (did not happen either). What do you want us to do? We XCLed based on the best knowledge we had at the time. XCLing a day out makes operations go quite a bit smoother since it allows us to forecast a little better and hopefully get what we need to cover filled and hold off on the rest.

It is not my concern how you get to base if you do not live where you work and I do not think it should be the companies concern. If you cannot afford to live where you work, get a job so you can work where you live. You decided to fly on SW and that is all I am saying.

If you work on certain day. Get to base. I don't care how and the company should not be giving a get out of jail card to people who made a choice to have a job in a city where they do not work. It is unfair to those who do live there and abide by the rules. What happens to the person who is in a cab that has a flat tire who lives in NY? Do they get a pass?

 

[Skymess]

It is not my concern how you get to base if you do not live where you work and I do not think it should be the companies concern. If you cannot afford to live where you work, get a job so you can work where you live. You decided to fly on SW and that is all I am saying.

If you work on certain day. Get to base. I don't care how and the company should not be giving a get out of jail card to people who made a choice to have a job in a city where they do not work. It is unfair to those who do live there and abide by the rules. What happens to the person who is in a cab that has a flat tire who lives in NY? Do they get a pass?

I'm with you regarding the commuter policy being unfair and bogus. It's definitely unfair to those living at the base who may also have a difficult time getting to the airport. I'm not with you regarding living at your base.

You have the choice to live where you want to live as a flight attendant or pilot. It's your responsibility to get yourself to base in a timely manner. It should NOT be the company's responsibility to give you a pass if you can't get there. Just as it shouldn't be the company's responsibility to allow people to live in ops. If you need to stay in ops because your flight gets in past 12 am and you are leaving on the first flight out in the morning, that's a completely different story.

 

[Skymess]

I'm not excusing people who do not get to work, but as a commuter to STL, the company makes it hard to impossible at times. Take for instance last Tuesday...

There was snow in St. Louis; so, around 12 noon, the company cancelled every single flight from DFW to STL beginning at 2pm for the rest of the day. Now how is a commuter who was going to fly up Tuesday afternoon for a Wednesday morning trip plan for that action by the company. All afternoon/evening flights showed as operating on schedule at 11:30am. At 12 noon they were all cancelled.

By the way, when I saw that the AA flights cancelled, I called Southwest and flew up on their 5:15pm flight. All of their flights from DAL to STL operated that day.

If the company didn't cancel flights willy-nilly or close the ramp at DFW with a heavy dew, the commuter "problem" wouldn't be quite as bad as it is.

Hmm. As one who also spends quite a bit of time on Southwest I was a little taken aback by this article. I can guess how southwest manages to get to places on time and fly through storms. It appears they have a less safe way of doing things than we do. Read on:

FAA levels record $10.2M fine against Southwest

USA TODAY 3/7/2008

The Federal Aviation Administration on Thursday issued a $10.2
million fine, " the largest in its history" against Southwest
Airlines.

The FAA said it will seek the fine from Southwest for flying 46 jets
during nine months in 2006 and 2007 without performing required
inspections for cracks in the fuselage.

Cracks eventually were found on six of the planes.

The Boeing 737 jets made 59,791 flights before the airline realized
in March 2007 that the inspections had not been completed. The
airline deliberately made 1,451 more flights after discovering the
lapse, the FAA said.

The agency transferred an FAA supervisor who had been overseeing
Southwest to another job and has "taken appropriate action" against
an unnamed employee, spokeswoman Laura Brown said.

The inspections were ordered after undetected cracks in an Aloha
Airlines 737 allowed a portion of the skin to peel away in flight in
1988, killing a flight attendant.

Southwest, the low-fare carrier that now has more domestic flights
than any other airline, said it had disclosed the missed inspections
to the FAA in March 2007. "We believed at that point that the matter
was closed," spokeswoman Linda Rutherford said.

Southwest said in a statement that safety was never compromised.

The fine comes as the FAA faces a whistle-blower investigation into
whether the agency has become too cozy with the airlines it oversees.

The allegations stem from an FAA program that encourages airlines to
disclose safety problems without fear of being punished.

Linda Goodrich, vice president of the Professional Airways Systems
Specialists, the union that represents FAA inspectors, said many
union members have come forward to complain that the agency abuses
the program.

"The agency has allowed (airlines) to use this system to get around
enforcement actions," Goodrich said.

Airlines have been allowed to "disclose" safety problems and escape
fines even though inspectors initially discovered the problems,
Goodrich said. FAA documents prohibit that practice.

The FAA's Brown said she did not know enough about Goodrich's
allegations to comment.

Whistle-blowers working with the House Transportation Committee had
produced "detailed documentation" about the problem at Southwest,
said a letter from the Inspector General for the Department of
Transportation. Committee Chairman Jim Oberstar, D-Minn., asked the
agency to investigate the claims, said the Feb. 11 letter.

The committee had planned to hold a hearing on the issue next week,
but the hearing was canceled because Oberstar requires hip
replacement surgery.

The previous high FAA fine was levied last year against TAG Aviation.
That fine, $10 million, was for operating charter flights in
violation of federal law.

Airlines often pay less than the amount the FAA initially seeks.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[kirkpatrick]

Hmm. As one who also spends quite a bit of time on Southwest I was a little taken aback by this article. I can guess how southwest manages to get to places on time and fly through storms. It appears they have a less safe way of doing things than we do.

I wouldn't be too hard on them over that. Every major airline has been fined at one time or another for various interpretations on what FAR's mean or don't mean.

All in all I've come to admire AA and is operation, but I have to admit I'm a bit surprised an inch of snow, even in DFW where they don't often have this weather, could bring the whole operation to a screeching halt as it did.

MK

 

[Flyboy4u]

Ok...Let's just get a few things straight...I am sure I will get ridiculed and called all kinds of nasty names for this post, but oh well...Last time I checked this was "Still" a free country.

1. If you think you can run this ariline without commuters, under the current F/A contract, then by all means you have every right to complain. Before you do complain, please let me know how a F/A is supposed to be based in NYC, BOS, SFO, and almost every other base we fly of with our current pay rate? Commuters have no choice which was forced upon us in the concession agreement...BTW... I am very thankful that some of you live at your base city , and have probably been there for many, many years.

2. Personally, I have actually moved, as requested by this company, to every base offered to me. That includes; ORD, DFW, MIA , LGA and now STL. I have the moving reciepts to prove it.

3. Yes, I actually moved after my recall to NY. Let me tell you,,,You can't live in NY under this current pay rate. Those who doubt me..Try it yourself.

4. In response now to the follow up post (that I am sure will be posted behind this one), You are correct, I didn't have to come back from my furlough. However, you are not me , and have no idea what I, nor my fellow mates who have been furloughed, have had to endure. Most of those flying at AA don't even know what a furlough is, or means. It's not pretty when one has to file a personal bankruptcy to keep AA out of it's own bankruptcy. Please keep one thing in mind, Yes I chose to come back to work, but I never chose to get furloughed to begin with. It's AA who "Forced" us to places like NY after our return to the line.

5. Finally, I will refer back to point #1...Try to run this company without commuters under the current pay rate? Goodluck! As my best friend says...3 little words. NGH ( Not gonna HAApen)!

So go ahead, take away the commuter policy, fire those who don't show up for thier trips, and then hire some more "Responsible" F/A's off of the street, and see what you get.


What Unity?

 

[Skymess]

I wouldn't be too hard on them over that. Every major airline has been fined at one time or another for various interpretations on what FAR's mean or don't mean.

All in all I've come to admire AA and is operation, but I have to admit I'm a bit surprised an inch of snow, even in DFW where they don't often have this weather, could bring the whole operation to a screeching halt as it did.

MK

Don't be too surprised. You live in NY too and you know how it gets around here when a few inches fall. It's like the end of the world. JFK and LGA close, the highway department freaks out and dumps sand everywhere which makes it worse, and all the turds in their suv's start driving faster as though they have ice braking technology instead of 4 wheel drive.

The only people who know how to do snow well is Northwest Airlines. I'll never forget when I worked there out of MSP and DTW and it would be white out conditions and they would be taking off and landing business as usual.

The big problem I have with AA is they call quits on a small storm and try to go when it is horrible out.

My first reserve month at AA I was called out to do a LGA trip during a major snowstorm. I was listing to 1010 wins and WABC on AM and they were both reporting LGA, JFK, ISP, EWR closed........ I called scheduling and they said, "it's not closed, just get there". So I got on the L.I.E. and proceeded to cut a swath through the snow with a rooster tail like a speedboat makes coming out the back with snow instead of water. No cars but me on the road. I heard the announcer say the airport closings about 8 more times and got off the highway at willis ave to use the payphone. (it was before everyone had a cell phone) I called scheduling again and was told the same nonsense. I got to the airport and found out, sure enough, it was shut down and hung out at LGA for 8 hours and waited the snowstorm out.

Dallas is definitely a different story though. It rains and people freak out. I lived there for a year and was constantly stunned at what people termed bad weather or bad traffic. Some people definitely need to leave the metroplex a bit more.

 

[Skymess]

Ok...Let's just get a few things straight...I am sure I will get ridiculed and called all kinds of nasty names for this post, but oh well...Last time I checked this was "Still" a free country.

1. If you think you can run this ariline without commuters, under the current F/A contract, then by all means you have every right to complain. Before you do complain, please let me know how a F/A is supposed to be based in NYC, BOS, SFO, and almost every other base we fly of with our current pay rate? Commuters have no choice which was forced upon us in the concession agreement...BTW... I am very thankful that some of you live at your base city , and have probably been there for many, many years.

2. Personally, I have actually moved, as requested by this company, to every base offered to me. That includes; ORD, DFW, MIA , LGA and now STL. I have the moving reciepts to prove it.

3. Yes, I actually moved after my recall to NY. Let me tell you,,,You can't live in NY under this current pay rate. Those who doubt me..Try it yourself.

4. In response now to the follow up post (that I am sure will be posted behind this one), You are correct, I didn't have to come back from my furlough. However, you are not me , and have no idea what I, nor my fellow mates who have been furloughed, have had to endure. Most of those flying at AA don't even know what a furlough is, or means. It's not pretty when one has to file a personal bankruptcy to keep AA out of it's own bankruptcy. Please keep one thing in mind, Yes I chose to come back to work, but I never chose to get furloughed to begin with. It's AA who "Forced" us to places like NY after our return to the line.

5. Finally, I will refer back to point #1...Try to run this company without commuters under the current pay rate? Goodluck! As my best friend says...3 little words. NGH ( Not gonna HAApen)!

So go ahead, take away the commuter policy, fire those who don't show up for thier trips, and then hire some more "Responsible" F/A's off of the street, and see what you get.


What Unity?

1. I was furloughed with a previous company so I know it's hard and I know you probably came back because you enjoyed the job/lifestyle.

2. I'm a new yorker by birth. I know how tough it is to live here. My whole family is here and I would love to live right near them but can't afford it. I still manage and have always managed even back when I qualified for food stamps and public housing in my 1st year of flying.

3. You're right. You didn't have to come back. You did it on your own, so stop whining.

4. Just because you commute doesn't mean you can't get a crash pad and either get commutable trips or commute in the night before and stay at your crash pad. Crash pads don't cost that much money.

5. You can run this company without commuters. All they would have to do is do what they did a few years ago and hire people from NY who would be guaranteed NY.

5. Commuting is a choice. Remember that.