Come celebrate the first anniversary of AA's TWA purchase.

[La Treal]

You are trying to say that you are a 3 year TWA FA and have the nerve to complain?

What were your realistic career expectations applying at TWA 3 years ago..?...

Get real!

Am I being unrealistic to think that if twa was still around you would be in the same position you are now.

At the bottom and furloughed?!?!

 

[TWAB717]

Yes I'm a 3 yr TWA F/A, well was. 3 yrs at AA are flying. I just know I wasnt furloughed until AA came in. I had over 750 people under me at TWA, with only 4000 f/a's. I was in a great position. I'm in my 6th year total with the company, june 30, 1997 seniority, not bad for a 24 year old. I know all about AA, I worked for them as an agent in 96 for 8 months before quiting and going to TWA. I even got my old employee number back!

 

[TWAnr]

[BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]----------------[BR]On 10/22/2002 1:57:32 PM FA Mikey wrote:
[P]My god those poor ex TW people who now have to pay medical and dental. It probley ate most of the 40% increase in pay... [/P]
[P]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]That is not what I wrote. Your reading comprehension is about as good as your spelling.[/P]

 

[La Treal]

Lets use common sense. I could almost tell you were 24yrs old.

If TWA was a financially viable company, after 911 most majors (except WN) laid off 20% so that means the bottom 800 would have been gone. That includes you. Not to mention more cuts came after that for the majors (except WN). So come on, count your blessings the real chances are TWA would have folded on its third BK and you would not even have recall rights. But of course this is all speculation, and TWA could have outdone all other airlines and bought Southwest (LOL!!)

That was a very wise decision you made back in 96. First person I have honestly ever heard of to leave a viable company to join one with 2 BKs and low on hand cash.
... Oh yeah, you were a teenager.

I was that way too....

 

[MiAAmi]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/22/2002 11:54:12 AM TWAnr wrote:





There is no 40% [STRONG]take home [/STRONG]pay raise. I have now seen close to ten months worth of pay statements. The net take home increase is less than 10%. Yes, the hourly rates are substantially higher, but the pairings or sequences that the flight attendants are now working are substantially less efficient. While it was relatively easy to accumulate more than ninety flying hours in ten to twelve days previously (i.e., Big Girl turns), now it takes fifteen workdays to put in the guaranteed 71 to 72 hours. To top it off, there is no longer cross utilization between international and domestic. Many people who use to work international flights at international pay are now working domestic flights at the lower rate of pay. [/P]


Most of the people which I know are more concerned about the number of days away from home as opposed to the number of hours in the air. When you account for the various contributions toward the cost medical and dental insurance and prefunding of the retirement medical insurance (there were none at TWA), the difference in pay is not substantial enough to outweigh the quality of life hardships that resulted from this takeover. [/P]


Yes, the pay increase is appreciated, for those who are still employed; however, implying that there was a tangible 40% increase in the actual paychecks is misleading at best.[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

Ok next time we go into contract negotiations I'll want them to negotiate take home pay. Regardless if you say 10% or I say 40% we both agree that your spouce recieved a raise after the takeover. A raise is a raise no matter how you cut it. Sorry the trips aren't to your liking. There is a reason I don't work for WN - I would hate the trips. (they would also have to offer me employement first I guess) Doesn't your spouce have the right to say this isn't for me. If this buyout brings your family this much heartship then why do it? You said earlier that you are a lawyer, am I right? Don't you bring in enough $$$ as a lawyer so that your spouce doesn't have to work? No matter how old I get or how senior I get, if quality of life suffers, I'm outta here.

 

[FA Mikey]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/22/2002 2:22:46 PM TWAnr wrote:

[BLOCKQUOTE]
[BLOCKQUOTE]----------------
On 10/22/2002 1:57:32 PM FA Mikey wrote:


My god those poor ex TW people who now have to pay medical and dental. It probley ate most of the 40% increase in pay... [/P]


----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]


That is not what I wrote. Your reading comprehension is about as good as your spelling.[/P]
----------------
[/blockquote]

It is what you were whining about. As well as how TWA people would be so much better off had AA not come around. How the difference in pay is so minimal and the quality of life sucks.

The spelling thing is such a cheap shot from someone with out a better point or arguement. better luck next time.

 

[MiAAmi]

If things were so much better at TWA than here then why weren't people flocking over to TWA? Why is it there are 22,000 flight attendants alone at AA and TWA had only 3000? Why isn't TWA still around if things were so much better there?

 

[FrugalFlyer]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/21/2002 1:54:32 PM Cart Pusher wrote:


TWA people did do a great job, over the years, of keeping their airline alive. Now they are being screwed. Should they be penalized because they chose to stay? What would you have done if you had 20, 30 years seniority? It's not that easy to walk away from.
----------------
[/blockquote]


TW people are not being screwed and penalized. They still have a job (in the airline industry to go to). What would I do if I was a TW employee? Deal with the card that life has dealt me - that is work at AA or jump to better job should the opportunity present itself. What is fair? Since STL is one of the major assets AA acquired, a fence to keep TW people in STL (and AA people out) seems fair to me. A fence also seems fair in MCI. Now, TWA did claim to operate a 'hub' at JFK, but AA has a large presence in the New York city area also, thus some kind of a ratio would be needed at this location. For anything else a staple job is more than fair. Heck, if AMR had their way, TW would be operated as a separate company with b-scale or lower wages.

That's my opinion. I have no vested interest in the outcome of lawsuit etc. I'm just a somebody who every now and then purchases a ticket on AA to get from point A to point B. And, I've said this before and say it again, this bickering and whining among employees does not win any sympathy from the customers it may only drive them away.

 

[TWAB717]

I'm sorry La Treal. I'm very mature for 24. I have as much experience and seniority in this industry as is mathematically possible. I keep up with what goes in with my airline's and the industry. I did make a good choice to leave AA in '96, and I told everyone how screwed we would be once they bought us. There couldnt have been a more different carrier to buy us. I enjoyed my years at TWA, we knew how to have fun and get the job done. We have nothing to lose and all to gain in these lawsuits. I wish you could say the same.

 

[TWAB717]

This past Monday, March 19, 2001, IAM Representatives met with the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) Executive Board in Los Angeles, CA. This was a follow-up to an earlier meeting we had with APFA President John Ward in Washington, DC to discuss integrating TWA’s and American’s Flight Attendants. This latest meeting followed repeated attempts by the IAM to schedule meetings with the American Airlines Flight Attendant Union.

At the meeting in Los Angeles, we advised APFA that we believed a workable solution to any integration problems was possible. We discussed the establishment of “fences†– but advised the APFA that we could never agree to being stapled to the bottom of any seniority list.

We made it clear to the APFA Executive Board that TWA Flight Attendants have no interest in being used as replacement flight attendants in the event APFA and American Airlines do not reach a new agreement. The IAM does not want to see the type of discord that the Reno Air merger brought to American Airlines. APFA John Ward said he would advise the IAM when the APFA Executive Board made a decision on seniority integration. Mr. Ward, however, failed to notify the IAM of the Board’s decision. We only found out about the results of their discussions by an announcement on the APFA web site. We were hoping for a smooth transition.

Unfortunately, the APFA has refused to agree to any process that would lead to a fair and equitable integration of seniority. (See attached transcript of APFA Hotline dated March 22, 2001) In addition, they are seeking the right to establish fences that keep us from bidding their flights. However, they seek the right to cross that fence and work our flights using THEIR seniority. It is a simple – but outrageous – philosophy: “What is mine is mine. What is yours is mine, too.†It simply will not work. There can be no labor peace with that type of philosophy. Until the APFA can grasp basic concepts of unionism and changes its desire to place worker against worker, there cannot be a smooth transition into the American Airlines work force.

IAM attorneys are reviewing our options for taking legal action against APFA to protect our members and ensure fair and equitable seniority integration. We are not happy about the prospect of suing another union. Unfortunately, APFA is not acting like a union. If we are forced to resort to legal action, it is because APFA has chosen to take the low road. It’s their choice.The IAM will not agree to be stapled to the bottom of anyone’s seniority list. We are providing a valuable asset to APFA in our dedication and resolve. If they choose not to accept us as equals, we have no choice but to demand that right elsewhere.

We will keep you advised of any further developments.

 

[TWAB717]

December 3, 2001
Via Facsimile & First-Class Mail

Mr. Robert W. Baker
Vice Chairman
American Airlines, Inc.
P. O. Box 619616
Dallas/Ft. Worth, TX 75261-9616

Dear Mr. Baker:

As time grows shorter toward an operational merger, we are disappointed to report that there has been no progress toward obtaining a fair and equitable integration process for TWA employees. In order for American Airlines to fully appreciate the IAM's position, I must briefly review the IAM's involvement with TWA concerning a restructuring program.

In May of 2000, I met with then TWA President and Chief Executive Officer William Compton in St. Louis, Missouri, to address the concerns and potential solutions to the problems that confronted all TWA employees. On October 13, 2000, I wrote a letter to Mr. Compton and confirmed our discussion in writing. A copy of this letter is attached.

The IAM consulted with airline analysts and determined that TWA could survive with a total restructuring of its operations and finances. We advised TWA management that the IAM was prepared to work with TWA management to protect our members and ensure the long-term viability of the carrier. To that regard, we entered into discussions with aircraft lessors, members of the TWA Board of the Directors, and the restructuring firm of Jay Alix & Associates.

The IAM, ALPA, and TWA met in St. Louis during the Christmas 2000 holidays and came to an agreement on a term sheet to restructure TWA. Boeing Aerospace and Jay Alix & Associates participated in these meetings. Boeing had agreed to provide reduced lease payments and a cash infusion. In addition, Boeing indicated they would talk to other lessors to participate in the restructuring. Jay Alix & Associates agreed to lead the restructuring program. We negotiated with TWA representatives and legal counsel and were prepared to sign an agreement that would have provided for substantial cost savings from all the employee groups. In exchange, TWA would hire the restructuring firm and seek cost reductions from all of its lessors and creditors. President Compton then left the negotiations and did not authorize anyone with authority to sign the agreement. However, Mr. Compton's representative, Kate Soled, then TWA's Chief Counsel, assured us that the agreement would be signed in the morning. Neither Bill Compton nor any of his representatives ever signed the agreement that would have given TWA an opportunity for survival.

On January 3, 2001, I wrote a letter to President Compton and advised him of the urgency of the matter, and requested that he sign the negotiated document. Bill Compton never responded to that letter.

During this time, it was rumored that TWA was in discussions with other carriers to either liquidate or sell the carrier. Bill Compton denied any discussions with other carriers to purchase TWA. Subsequently, there was an announcement that American Airlines would buy the assets of TWA, place the company in bankruptcy and guarantee employment for the 16,000 unionized employees. American Airlines further stated before Congress and the Bankruptcy Court that a fair and equitable integration process would be negotiated with the respective labor organizations.

As you know, the APFA has refused to discuss this matter with IAM representatives. The TWU, for various reasons, has been unable, until very recently, to enter into any meaningful discussions with IAM representatives to discuss seniority integration. The IAM submitted a proposal to the TWU on November 20, 2001, which was to be reviewed by the TWU President's Council and then American Airlines. During the November 20th discussions, we were advised that American Airlines had verbally vetoed the proposal. Further, we were informed that American Airlines had veto power over all proposals. American Airlines imposed seniority integration on the Passenger Service Agents. It is our view that this integration process was neither fair nor equitable. American Airlines management and its employees must remember that TWA employees came with planes, routes, and a workforce that kept an otherwise dying airline intact for well over 15 years. Many of those employees, some with 35-40 years seniority, have made significant sacrifices over the years, which must not be ignored.

Our members feel betrayed by this course of conduct. The IAM has been deluged with telephone calls, e-mails and letters protesting their unfair integration or lack of integration into the American Airlines system. They know full well that, based on the proposed integration system, disproportionate numbers of TWA employees will be furloughed and the very few that remain will only have an opportunity for part-time employment. It is this realization that gave rise to the lawsuit the IAM filed on behalf of the Passenger Service Agents. We have been further advised that numerous TWA employees have independently voiced an intention to sue American Airlines for age, sex and racial discrimination and to seek class action status. It can also be anticipated that labor organizations that do not take into consideration their duty of fair representation for all of their members will be the subject of lawsuits as well.

The IAM has been advised by legal counsel that American Airlines cannot relinquish its responsibility for fair and equitable integration by merely delegating it to the labor organizations.

In view of the current situation in the transportation industry as a result of the September 11, 2001 terrorist incidents and Flight 587, transportation labor and management cannot afford to divert their attention from rebuilding passenger confidence and airline profitability. If the seniority integration problem is not resolved, American Airlines will be confronted with lengthy legal battles, a demoralized workforce, and representation elections.

In my September 12, 2001, letter to you (copy attached), I stated the following:

Our best efforts require that we come together in times of crisis. Our industry has been dealt a serious blow. Despite differences that define our professional relationship, please know that I stand as a solid ally in the effort to overcome the negative effects of yesterday's tragedy.

With the unfortunate incident of American Airlines Flight 587, it is evermore important that our efforts foster good working relationships and make airline employees safe and secure. It is now time that we take action. The devastating blows to our industry, to the victims and their families, and to all airline employees, clearly sends a message that business-as-usual is not acceptable.

We are requesting that American Airlines institute binding arbitration whereby all parties can present their case to a third party for quick and fair integration.

We urge American Airlines to resolve this matter so as to fulfill its commitment to our members at TWA.

Sincerely,

Robert Roach, Jr.
GENERAL VICE PRESIDENT

 

[TWAnr]

[BLOCKQUOTE]----------------[BR]On 10/22/2002 6:54:06 PM FrugalFlyer wrote:[BR][BR]And, I've said this before and say it again, this bickering and whining among employees does not win any sympathy from the customers it may only drive them away.[BR][BR]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]Two points:[BR][BR]
[OL][BR]
[LI]I would be extremely surprised if more than a handful of the millions of passengers who fly AA every month are even aware of the existence most of these aviation enthusiasts message boards, let alone follow them.[BR]
[LI]It is extremely unlikely that you are going to find yourself on a flight with a mixed AA and former TWA crew. Only twenty three TWAers have undergone the cross training thus far. The rest of the TWAers, according to FAA rules can only work on board planes operating under the TWA LLC operating certificate just as the nAAtives can only staff flights operating under the AA operating certificate. In any event, even on those rare flights where you will find old and new AAers, you will notice that all personal problems are left behind as is evidenced by this excerpt from a letter by the managing director of flight operations in St. Louis (who was not originally from TWA):[/LI][/OL]
[BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style=MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px]
[BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style=MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px]Finally, I want to share a personal experience. Every airline carrying[BR]military personnel must submit to a DOD audit on a recurring basis. I[BR]attended the briefing of the findings our recent DOD audit today. One of[BR]the DOD officers rode jumpseat on our flight from DFW to STL this week.[BR]Everyone on the crew except the captain was being furloughed at the end of[BR]this month. The Major commented on the total professionalism of both the[BR]flight crew and the cabin crew. He stated “they left the problems at the[BR]departure gateâ€￾. The pride I felt left me with a lump in my throat.[/BLOCKQUOTE][BR]
[P dir=ltr]And this, by one of the twenty three who crossed over to the AA operating certificate:[BR]
[BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style=MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px]
[P dir=ltr]They been very nice to us and also the F/A that we work with from other domiciles have been very nice and helpful.[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE][/BLOCKQUOTE]

 

[kirkpatrick]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 10/22/2002 1:59:50 PM TWAB717 wrote:

those bid services have a monopoly on open time. We had major trade freedom at TW,----------------
[/blockquote]


While I lament the loss of our trading flexibility, let me point out that not only do traders not have a monopoly on open time, but are forbidden to even touch it. I cannot even so much as view open time if I use my trading account.

In addition, a trader playing by the company rules cannot put you into or out of tt mode, cannot wave your 30 in 7 if necessary to do a 2 for 1, cannot put a message on the hiboard and cannot trade with anyone except his own clients. In other words, if you want to pick up a trip and I see one on the Hiboard, I cannot pick it up for you without calling the person and asking for their date of birth so I can sign them up as one of my clients.

You have far more trading power than a trader. What the trader has is experience and a network of people to work with.

MK

President, CEO and only employee of:

Mark's Bids and Trades

Give me your line, I'll make it shine

 

[FA Mikey]

You have as much to lose. If you continue to try to drain the resource's and talent of this union, in these like you describe, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose lawsuits. You risk us not having our full potential and focus in negotiations coming up.

 

[MileHighGuy]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 10/23/2002 10:15:48 AM FA Mikey wrote:
[P]You have as much to lose. If you continue to try to drain the resource's and talent of this union, in these like you describe, we have everything to gain and nothing to lose lawsuits. You risk us not having our full potential and focus in negotiations coming up. [/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Talent? What talent? [/P]