MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #16
iluvaa------ Can you afford to live in Chicago?
Bye bye Tulsa
- Thread starter brownmech
- Start date
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
- 569
Problem is one of the Concessions we put in place over the years was the Juniority system. This seniority buster allows the company to limit your choices when being displaced to those stations not where you have seniority but to where the most junior man in the system was. So even though you may have more seniority than the bottom guy in ORD, if the Junior guys are at say NY or LAX, it may not be on your option sheet. This is something one may expect if you worked at Delta or some non-union outfit but we pay dues for this!
Amazing isn't it? Way to go TWU.
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #20
Hey, that's nothing to brag on!
It doesn't mean it's right.
BigMac
Veteran
Full time ORD line inspector bid position was just filled by an employee with 09/19/11 seniority on 8/23/13. So any OH inspector could do a lateral bump if RIFd to ORD with higher seniority. If he is qualified by line correct?
IIRC the Juniority System was put in when they put in the $12,500 special moving allowance for protected employees It was a concession with a little sweetener. Prior to that we had the same rights as any other Unionized worker in the Industry where we could bump into any station where there were workers with less seniority if the move was driven by the company's actions. Thats the way it should be, why, in a union shop, should a senior worker end up in a location where he doesn't want to be when there are less senior workers in locations where he would rather be? He is being displaced by the actions of the company, at their convenience, then we bend over backwards to minimize the resulting disruption to the company's operations and save them from paying all the additional moving expenses by maximizing the disruption to the senior workers life and agreeing to violate his seniority by not allowing him to displace a Junior worker who occupies a position his seniority should get him. The $12500 is now gone, but we didn't get any value for it or the fact that we have a Juniority system, so this gets added to the list of industry leading concessions. This is another example of the bait and switch which generations of unelected TWU officials have pawned off on the membership at AA which has led to us being worse off than non-union workers in many respects. We give up something everyone else has in exchange for something of lessor value, which is sold as a gain, then we lose that as well with the explanation that "nobody else has this cost" (forgetting all about how that was in exchange for the seniority violating Juniority System which saves them many times what the $12500 cost ). So now we sit here with the Juniority system still in place but the $12500, which saved them money by denying senior workers the right to FULLY exercise their seniority is gone. AA once again ended up with the best of both, limited bumping like a non-union carrier which saves them several rounds of Moving expenses to reimburse and they don't even have to pay the one time $12500 to the guy who lost his seniority rights and was sent to a location at the convenience of the company while being denied the right to displace wherever his seniority would carry him. Its sad that some just shrug this off like you do. Its a big deal, seniority is one of the cornerstones of Unions. Having contracts that undermine seniority is having contracts that undermine Unionism. Yes this has been there a long time, during an era where the airline was growing it may not have been a big deal, but the erosion of seniority continues with the bid rules and CC selection panels. Our workrules more closely resemble Non-Union but with less compensation. This may not be at the top of the list but it should be on the list of things that we need to prepare to present to a PEB one day. We should start preparing for that now. Let management focus on emerging from BK, we should focus all our attention on preparing to shut this company down in 2018 (we will only get to a PEB if they are convinced we are willing and able to do so) and our arguments how AA colluded with unelected union officials, with bribes in the form of A5 passes and enhanced pensions . We should be aware of every industry leading concession that remains imposed on us and make sure we tell management, each other and anyone that will listen about these concession at every opportunity. Don't just shrug it off.
Good points made on all you said Bob. We have some that think like that at SWA. They'll never do that, or it will never get that bad here; If I am not mistaken you guys used to say that at AA prior to 2000. If the unions would prepare for the worst and they never had to use it, then great. Don't prepare for the worst and then can't use it is even more detrimental than just the worst that has come upon the company and employees. It's kinda like the preppers on tv, we all think they are way over kill, however, they will survive it, the question here is WILL YOU?? (the membership)
In the layoffs back in the 90s, the lowest seniority guys who got laid off in the first round in Tulsa got to bump in AFW and DFW. The second round who had more seniority than the first got LAX, ORD, JFK and LGA. So in reality their seniority worked against them. Not right.
Thtats part of the deal that got cut by the twu. Plain an d simple that's why they are running for their life. Hopefully they will not be able to run fast enough.
Now that the perceived threat is gobe I.e the ibt I have no one knocking on my door anymore. Still no sept union meeting.
Now that the perceived threat is gobe I.e the ibt I have no one knocking on my door anymore. Still no sept union meeting.
Tex-Mech
Veteran
Meetings are quarterly. I went to the April and July meetings, so the next should be in October.
Thomas Paine
Veteran
- Sep 4, 2003
- 583
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No thats the result of the "Juniority system". No Union has the ability to tell the company where and when they have a reduction in force, but most make sure their senior workers do not get screwed like they do at AA and end up where the Junior workers are instead of where their seniority should let them. Here, thanks to our contract the company essentially gets to pick where guys end up, by staggering the RIFs they can force the senior guys to go to undesirable locations. Thats what happened then. If you could bump by seniority there may be more bouncing around but senior people who are laid off get to pick where they want to go instead of where the junior man is.
BTW 514 has less AMTs than the line, around 500 less, the cleaners and OSMs help Tulsa maintain a 300 Title I
member lead but it wont be long till the line has more Title I than Tulsa. If the 314 number is accurate Local 591 may not only have 500 more AMTs than Tulsa, they will have more Title I members in total.
