Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates

[WNMECH]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2014/05/sir-richard-branson-to-press-case-for-virgin-americas-gates-at-dallas-love-field.html/


Maybe Herb or Gary should arm wrestle him for the gates.

I think his lobbying may hurt more than help Virgin, but they will still most likely get the gates.

 

[robbedagain]

good luck    its all politics at this point with the city as to who gets the 2 gates.

 

[WNMECH]

http://gizmodo.com/how-an-arm-wrestle-resolved-a-major-airline-dispute-1527658365

Could be "The malice in Dallas 2".

By the way, how do the rest of y'all texans like Branson in a cowboy hat?
I hope he wears that exact outfit Monday.

What a doofus.

 

[swamt]

WNMECH, You bring up a very good point.  This current news is as big as the past arm wrestle media campaign to get the aircraft.  This could be huge, put a call into Herb.  What would he do?
Will there be a compromise to the final debate and results?   We all wait and assume but can't wait for the responce from SWA on Bronson coming in.  This is getting very interesting indeed...

 

[WorldTraveler]

Given that Sir Richard isn't even a US citizen and Virgin America fought a very lengthy battle to try to prove that it is not controlled by foreign interests, Sir Richard's efforts could be yet one more effort that backfires regarding the DAL gates.

Further, Sir Richard's efforts raise conflicts with DL which owns a higher share and dollar value of Virgin Atlantic than Sir Richard owns in Virgin America. Both can focus on their own investments at the conflict of the others but don't think that DL isn't capable of ensuring that DL plays the Virgin Atlantic deal to its benefit while also putting pressure on Virgin America on the west coast, esp. at LAX where Virgin's position is clearly being impacted by DL's growth.

There is nothing interesting about any of this. US airport access laws are very clear. DAL has to accommodate other airlines including DL and Virgin before it allows any gates to be given to existing carriers. Virgin can fly to DAL if it wants to. DL will be there because US law and DAL's own access agreements which WN signed say so.

The issue isn't and never has been that any carrier can be shut out of the airport or that two gates will make or break the case. There isn't and cannot be a route case that attempts to try to find the best carrier based on the number of seats, their ability to serve the most markets, or lower the fares the greatest. The only place route cases like this have legal standing is with the very few COUNTRIES that do not have Open Skies with the US - and they are fast coming to an end. The US has had "Open Skies" within the US for over 3 decades. If WN wants to start service to Ireland tomorrow, they obtain airport access on both ends and hit the skies - and both sides are required to provide WN or any other carrier with access. WN could start BWI-DUB or HOU-CUN service tomorrow if it wanted to.

The sooner each side can understand that the DOJ didn't understand the basics of how US airports operate or ignored it in attempting to influence the marketplace and move on to a world where DAL will serve multiple carriers even if it means that WN isn't as big as it wants to be, the sooner we can stop these endless threads on the subject.

and if Richard Branson really wanted to put the squeeze on AA, he would start DFW-LHR.

 

[eolesen]

There is nothing interesting about any of this.

And yet, we were blessed with 400+ words of wisdom from you on the topic...

 

[WorldTraveler]

There need not be any if all of the grandstanding from WN and Virgin and their respective interests ended and there was recognition that this is no different from any other access case at any non-slot controlled airport.

It is amazing that Virgin is willing to pay AA lots of money when it just went thru the same access issue at ORD and ultimately got what it wanted. Since there is but one terminal at DAL, there is no possibility that the city of Dallas could offer Virgin a "lesser" facility like they did at ORD.

The DOJ might have succeeded at DCA and LGA based on those being slot controlled airports. There is no legal basis for them to circumvent well-established laws on airport access at non-slot controlled airports that DAL recognized as part of the Wright amendment reforms and that WN agreed to.

 

[eolesen]

Yes, the fact that Branson is willing to come and argue against DL's interests is indeed interesting.

Karma can be such a b!tc# at times, no?...

 

[WorldTraveler]

or 1. it simply says that each side does what they have to do in their respective relationship and DL and Virgin America are competitors or 2. as I have noted, both will end up at DAL anyway and there are enough gates for practically everything DL and Virgin America propose at the two gates plus UA's with a couple flights at WN's gates.
Or WN convinces the City of Dallas to accept the common use gate proposal and then convince DL and Virgin to use only the available gates and stay out of WN's gates, Virgin pays nothing to get into DAL, and within a flight or two, everyone is happy - except for AA that gets nothing for giving up its gates which it couldn't use anyway.

As for all of the Virgin's, DL's growth at LAX aided by a few more mainline aircraft up and down the west coast to/from SFO and LAX plus reallocating a slot to LAX-LHR and an additional flight to Australia (as is rumored) which shift the power at LAX considerably to DL's favor, help the Virgin's it wants and hurt those which it doesn't want to.

Or DL could throw one of its 767s on DFW-LHR

If swamt and I are moving in any sense at all toward the same point, an eventual compromise would be that point.

 

[swamt]

Good luck with that...

 

[700UW]

Gee what happened to the ORD-LHR flight DL announced?

 

[WorldTraveler]

Because in your world swamt it is only a compromise if WN adds to their 16 gates at the expense of anyone else even serving the airport?

 

[swamt]

And you still connot comprehend what I have been saying all along.  I could care less who is or remains at DAL LF.  I have always said that if it came down to 2 LCC's then Delta would be pushed to the side as far as the DOJ was concerned for who would be awarded, as they have said, and I quote, "Delta is not a good diversture candidate for the DAL LF gates".   Then once VA through it's hat in the game I knew Delta was out, AND it would be much harder for SWA.  Not that SWA is scared of any comp from Delta what-so-ever, matter fact if Delta was good at the comp with SWA why haven't they fired up any head to head flights with SWA on larger aircraft?  The only reason Delta is doing well, for now, is because they are using the smaller seats in order to get around the W/A restrictions.  You are also very aware that I have always been about Delta not getting the 2 divested gates at LF, not if Delta will stay or go (although it is appearing more and more that they may have to leave)  unless they decide to lease one of the other gates and/or share some gates...
Hoping all this is settled on the 7th...

 

[eolesen]

Yep, go ahead and start up DFW-LHR. That'll show the City who is in charge...

Economically, it is in the City's best interest to have a preferential lease, because it guarantees income over the term of the lease.

Going to common use lowers their income generating potential, especially if carriers realize that DAL isn't the panacea that some have made it out to be, and they start dropping service...

 

[WorldTraveler]

And you still connot comprehend what I have been saying all along.  I could care less who is or remains at DAL LF.  I have always said that if it came down to 2 LCC's then Delta would be pushed to the side as far as the DOJ was concerned for who would be awarded, as they have said, and I quote, "Delta is not a good diversture candidate for the DAL LF gates".   Then once VA through it's hat in the game I knew Delta was out, AND it would be much harder for SWA.  Not that SWA is scared of any comp from Delta what-so-ever, matter fact if Delta was good at the comp with SWA why haven't they fired up any head to head flights with SWA on larger aircraft?  The only reason Delta is doing well, for now, is because they are using the smaller seats in order to get around the W/A restrictions.  You are also very aware that I have always been about Delta not getting the 2 divested gates at LF, not if Delta will stay or go (although it is appearing more and more that they may have to leave)  unless they decide to lease one of the other gates and/or share some gates...
Hoping all this is settled on the 7th...

 
and I thought we were making progress....

first, 100% of the seats DL will offer at DAL will be new seats to the N Texas market and will be serving the local DAL market, not connecting or thru passengers. Neither Virgin or WN can say that - thus if it came down to th e value of what DL will offer, it doesn't stack up to say that DL is not competitive in the number of seats.

But it really doesn't matter because US airport access laws require airports like DAL to accommodate other carriers that want to serve the airport.

Whatever reasons you want for DL to not serve DAL don't stack up against DAL's legal requirements to accommodate not just DL but any other carrier that wants to serve the airport.

Further, DL serves both MDW and HOU alongside the int'l airports at both cities. The notion that DL can't succeed at both Dallas airports is just a dream of some

DL has been serving Love Field since before you or I were born.
 

Yep, go ahead and start up DFW-LHR. That'll show the City who is in charge...

Economically, it is in the City's best interest to have a preferential lease, because it guarantees income over the term of the lease.

Going to common use lowers their income generating potential, especially if carriers realize that DAL isn't the panacea that some have made it out to be, and they start dropping service...

the City of Dallas will have no problem filling every gate at DAL for eternity. A preferential lease won't make one iota of difference in much revenue the City will collect.

see above. DL knows the N. Texas market and intends to serve it just as AA would have done if it hadn't agreed to the merger that took away those rights.

DL will serve two Dallas airports just as they do in Houston and Chicago.