Bob Says

[WorldTraveler]

you are absolutely right... it is called lead by example... and it takes recognizing that the company cannot continue the way it has. AA has operated the way it has for 10 years and alot of people don't see any sense of urgency to really change.

For alot of companies, BK is enough of a catalyst to initiate real change which does reach to the culture of the organization; not sure that will be the case with AA.

 

[cf6mech]

What I see is a "get mine before liquidation" attitude everywhere, the top execs. still getting bonuses, bullying Unions to except more and more concessionary contracts to fund theirs, why cause they can (then they leave or move on to another Fortune 500 business), truely talented mechanics with many work years ahead of them leaving in droves, leaving only the salty talent behind to count the days.....its a sickness not unlike a cancer that can only be cured with amputation. Who is at fault?, labor isn't in control, they don't make decissions or steer the ship. Seems very simple to me,and it should to me,....seem very simple to the board. Do they really expect us to rally behind current leadership?,....really? The pilots have already have signed no confidence letter,....I'm sure every other group with a stake at American would also sign in overwhelming numbers.What will it take to right this sinking ship?,....seems very simple to me.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

What I see is a "get mine before liquidation" attitude everywhere, the top execs. still getting bonuses, bullying Unions to except more and more concessionary contracts to fund theirs, why cause they can (then they leave or move on to another Fortune 500 business), truely talented mechanics with many work years ahead of them leaving in droves, leaving only the salty talent behind to count the days.....its a sickness not unlike a cancer that can only be cured with amputation. Who is at fault?, labor isn't in control, they don't make decissions or steer the ship. Seems very simple to me,and it should to me,....seem very simple to the board. Do they really expect us to rally behind current leadership?,....really? The pilots have already have signed no confidence letter,....I'm sure every other group with a stake at American would also sign in overwhelming numbers.What will it take to right this sinking ship?,....seems very simple to me.

You are right. We are just along for the ride and don't get to make any decisions. We will get to watch as management rewards themselves with more bonuses and what Horton gets out of this BK will make you physically sick. Business as usual in Corporate America.

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Maybe if NEW leadership would step in, openly and honestly admit the faults and short comings with a plan to improve then the employees will get behind them. I have never heard anyone in management honestly admit their faults in detail with a plan to change, all I hear is labor cost this and labor cost that. In return, we in labor never admit our faults either, we just complain about management this and management that.

Freaking Dysfunctional bunch of stool pigeons on both sides. And together we will most likely kill this company before we pull our collective heads out of our asses

If all we have is new livery, new branding, and more slogans and BS, then I even say screw it. I cannot afford anymore of the same.

To be fair, we have same situation with our Union, it's Constitutional Structure, and it's current leadership, but some are either too stupid or too afraid to make change.

Refreshing view of the situation and much better than most people on the boards who either take one side or the other. You hit the nail right on the head by pointing out BOTH sides are the blame. Both sides are neither 100% innocent or guilty. I won't repeat what you said, because I think you did a great job of summing up where they both felt short.

I really wish more guys would view things this way (both from management and labor). I fear decisions by the APA at this point are being controlled by the "I will cut my nose off to spite my face" type of attitude. NOT GOOD. While management just does DUMB ####, and instead of investing in cleaning out the bad labor and bad middle management and setting a standard of ACCOUNTABILITY. Either way till BOTH sides change, all they are going to do is drive the ship right into Parker's port, where he will sink it because he is too incompetant not to. Management from AMR must make a radical step, and labor must then reciprocate, and go from there by being the aggressor in ANY merger talk (either today or in the future).

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[cf6mech]

Can't speak for the APA but for the TWU crowd we are doubly screwed by a Union that leans towards the company and helps to divide and conquer the troups,...we have seen this time and time again,... they truelly don't have our best interests in mind. I would agree in faults on both sides if, and only if, our pay before this new contract had us anywhere near a average industry scale, and now with this new one an all time low in pay and benni's which may effect scale pay for mechs across an industry,... but since we haven't, don't blame us to work for what we get paid for i.e. bottom of industry .The pilots and F/A have had a union that pushes back, because so their pay has been more rewarding experiance for them (good for them and their union),if their productivity does not meet scale,...well there is some blame. But for me as a mechanic,.. I see no blame in our productivity or what is expected of us. We once again have given more then the rest of the groups and our savings to the company will help pay the F/A and pilots contracts,....geez even the F/A's got a signing bonus....what is the motive now for any mech. to pull together win together right now?,to do more for less,yet again,and this time for even less?.....Where is our union that is suppose to support our interests?.....MIA.

 

[AAviator]

The APA has gyrated from hard-liners to concessionary multiple times. Nothing has worked.

Who ultimately has the ownership to change culture?

It ain't labor.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Can't speak for the APA but for the TWU crowd we are doubly screwed by a Union that leans towards the company and helps to divide and conquer the troups,...we have seen this time and time again,... they truelly don't have our best interests in mind. I would agree in faults on both sides if, and only if, our pay before this new contract had us anywhere near a average industry scale, and now with this new one an all time low in pay and benni's which may effect scale pay for mechs across an industry,... but since we haven't, don't blame us to work for what we get paid for i.e. bottom of industry .The pilots and F/A have had a union that pushes back, because so their pay has been more rewarding experiance for them (good for them and their union),if their productivity does not meet scale,...well there is some blame. But for me as a mechanic,.. I see no blame in our productivity or what is expected of us. We once again have given more then the rest of the groups and our savings to the company will help pay the F/A and pilots contracts,....geez even the F/A's got a signing bonus....what is the motive now for any mech. to pull together win together right now?,to do more for less,yet again,and this time for even less?.....Where is our union that is suppose to support our interests?.....MIA.

I gotta agree with you CF6. We continue to be underpaid and treated like red headed step children from the company AND the TWU. When you pay the worst in the industry you have to expect to get what you pay for. When you negotiate the worst in the industry you have to expect to get backlash from the membership. Neither has happened yet so the gameplan continues. Until we stand up to our union and the company we will not be treated any different. The best way to stand up to the union is to sign an AMFA card and then vote them out. I am convinced they realize they are living on borrowed time and are now only looking out for FS and Stores. How else can you explain the fact that FS and Stores are above industry standard in pay (not benefits of course) and we are rock bottom?

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

AS is not an airline of Alaska predominantly. Its HDQ is in SEA and the majority of its revenue comes from the lower 48.

AS is not an attractive merger candidate for any US airline because of its high market capitalization. ALK is worth over $3B; in contrast Delta - the most expensive US airline by market cap - is worth just under $10B even though DAL is over 8X larger. Being consistently profitable drives high market caps.

Alaska Air's market cap is rich because they are able to charge good prices for a premium product to a very specific (The State of Alaska) market. That is how they made money originally before expanding their lower 48 service. Many of their destinations are remote and require special handling. Also the federal goverment would have a big say in any ownership transfer that would cut service.

You don't have to invoke DL in every conversation you have on this board. DL (and you) are not experts at everything.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The reason for citing DL was because DL is the highest market cap airline in the US and the value of ALK relative to DAL is relevant.

But since you don't want to hear that, I'll note that ALK's market cap is higher than LCC even though about 1/2 of LCC's value has been added since AMR went into BK on investor hopes that AA and US will merge.

The majority of ALK's revenues DO NOT come from Alaska despite your continued belief that their Alaska name defines their business. ALK is successful because they have a niche business model built around the Pacific NW and California where they find markets to serve w/o running into other carriers.
Their presence in Alaska doesn't hurt but they could not report those levels of profitability if they did not run a solid business in the rest of their business that has nothing to do with the state of Alaska.