WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #31
First, Bob. I am not AGAINST anything. I am very pro-reality, and pro-success, which very much can mean pro-labor AND pro-business but it usually does not. Problem is that in very few cases in the airline industry, labor and mgmt have figured out how to get on the same page.
The best examples of success in the airline industry - DL historically and again post BK, WN since its inception, and CO post BK until it was acquired by UA - all succeeded because mgmt had a solid business plan and labor was willing to do what was necessary for the company to succeed - and labor shared in that success.
Most of the traditional labor-mgmt relationships in the airline industry have been contentious and adversarial. It is no surprise that it is a lose-lose environment for everyone.
AA increased the efficiency across its operation, including the use of its fleet - which is precisely why you don't see half of the revenue despite the fleet size being cut in half - or whatever percentage you want to use.
AA, like most other carriers, outsourced a significant amount of its flying to regional carriers. Again, like it or not, but DL is the only network carrier in the US that is changing that paradigm. No surprise that DL has no employees on furlough and is hiring - although their regional carriers have taken it in the shorts.
Yes, there are some airlines in the industry - the big one based in ATL for one - who said they are tired of everyone else making money except airlines. That is part of why they said they will not order billions of dollars in new aircraft but will figure out how to make decade old airplanes work. You are indeed right that the industry mindset has been that government and everyone else makes money but airlines seem rarely to be able to..... it takes changing that mindset for employees to benefit - and in all honestly, AA has not shown they understand that principle.
Yes, Bob, part of the reason why AA's out of court restructuring was unsuccessful was because AA was paying lease rates for aircraft that were far above market value. I said years ago that AA didn't get out of BK what other carriers did.... and now that AA is getting those lease rates down, they are getting rid of the aircraft such as the M80s where they reduced the lease rates - or that is their stated plan w/ all of the aircraft they are buying. Again, their competitor 800 miles east on I-20 decided that they would keep the M80s that they won big lease payment cuts in BK.
You are also correct that AA kept maintenance and it cost them relative to other carriers - but my point has always been that AA didn't need to dump near as many of its mechanics and as much as of its maintenance infrastructure if it could figure out how to insource maintenance work. But AA mgmt has decided they would rather outsource and have the smallest workforce possible and forego the possibility of insourcing.
DO you not see how the traditional labor -mgmt relationship esp. at AA has created so much pain for employees?
The best examples of success in the airline industry - DL historically and again post BK, WN since its inception, and CO post BK until it was acquired by UA - all succeeded because mgmt had a solid business plan and labor was willing to do what was necessary for the company to succeed - and labor shared in that success.
Most of the traditional labor-mgmt relationships in the airline industry have been contentious and adversarial. It is no surprise that it is a lose-lose environment for everyone.
AA increased the efficiency across its operation, including the use of its fleet - which is precisely why you don't see half of the revenue despite the fleet size being cut in half - or whatever percentage you want to use.
AA, like most other carriers, outsourced a significant amount of its flying to regional carriers. Again, like it or not, but DL is the only network carrier in the US that is changing that paradigm. No surprise that DL has no employees on furlough and is hiring - although their regional carriers have taken it in the shorts.
Yes, there are some airlines in the industry - the big one based in ATL for one - who said they are tired of everyone else making money except airlines. That is part of why they said they will not order billions of dollars in new aircraft but will figure out how to make decade old airplanes work. You are indeed right that the industry mindset has been that government and everyone else makes money but airlines seem rarely to be able to..... it takes changing that mindset for employees to benefit - and in all honestly, AA has not shown they understand that principle.
Yes, Bob, part of the reason why AA's out of court restructuring was unsuccessful was because AA was paying lease rates for aircraft that were far above market value. I said years ago that AA didn't get out of BK what other carriers did.... and now that AA is getting those lease rates down, they are getting rid of the aircraft such as the M80s where they reduced the lease rates - or that is their stated plan w/ all of the aircraft they are buying. Again, their competitor 800 miles east on I-20 decided that they would keep the M80s that they won big lease payment cuts in BK.
You are also correct that AA kept maintenance and it cost them relative to other carriers - but my point has always been that AA didn't need to dump near as many of its mechanics and as much as of its maintenance infrastructure if it could figure out how to insource maintenance work. But AA mgmt has decided they would rather outsource and have the smallest workforce possible and forego the possibility of insourcing.
DO you not see how the traditional labor -mgmt relationship esp. at AA has created so much pain for employees?
