america west pilots make strange bedfellows in Park City.
http://utah-wedding-...se-russ-part-1/
http://www.deseretne...le-assault.html
http://utah-wedding-...se-russ-part-1/
http://www.deseretne...le-assault.html
August 2013 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
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Reed Richards
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- Sep 2, 2009
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Cristina Onassis was one of the richest woman in the world in her time, and could not find true love much less a good man before she died at a relatively young age. I have seen the crew news videos, not jealous at all. RR
Indeed. I honestly wish them well. Why not do so? But...It ain't likely to play out very well. I could be wrong, and hope I am. I've no reason to wish ill on a couple of strangers.
CallawayGolf
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- Nov 13, 2009
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Why is it you can only take quotes out of context to make your ridiculous assertions? If the legacy US Airways would have been financially solvent and had been managed well, then there would have been no merger in the first place. The fact the US was in serious trouble and need of an entirely new financial structure and management team is what drove investors to fund the transaction and to place Parker and his team in the top executive positions in order to make it all come together just as it was. The alternative to the merger was a very bleak outlook for US and the careers of every US employee. That's just where things were at the time. That's certainly not the fault of anyone on the west, pilots included.Sigh! I suppose that makes it entirely reasonable to try and take the fullest possible (and purely opportunistic) personal advantage over some "fellow pilot" then? You've a most "interesting" code of umm..."ethics". = Hey Look! This guy's been knocked down! Let's steal his watch, phone and wallet!...?
Now your statement about stealing is hyperbole to the highest degree. The NIC was crafted in order to prevent any such harm to either group. Active employees were slotted according to their seniority position and their equipment status so as to prevent any potential downgrading of seats being held at the time of the merger. There is and never was any stealing involved in anything that has to do with the NIC being implemented.
Furthermore, the west had zero input into how the SLI was ordered by the NIC. All they have asked is that the parties agree to abide by the terms of their agreement. Oh the humanity of such sinful and debased moralities to actually expect anyone to abide by their agreements! The only thing worse a person could possibly do to another human being in this life would be to actually order a integrated seniority list by a person's seniority status. Using seniority to develop a seniority list can only be conceived in the most deranged and mentality unstable mind with a penchant for inflicting as much harm as possible on a particular group who deserved so much more because their diminutive seniority status simply cannot be reconciled with their feelings of self importance, a state that should naturally trump all forms of logic and reasoning (not the sarcasm alert here for you Sheldon types out there).
EastUS1, on 26 October 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:Sigh! I suppose that makes it entirely reasonable to try and take the fullest possible (and purely opportunistic) personal advantage over some "fellow pilot" then? You've a most "interesting" code of umm..."ethics". = Hey Look! This guy's been knocked down! Let's steal his watch, phone and wallet!...?
Which part of the above can you actually and honestly contest? You advance only an opportunist's perspective, and the most cross-threaded and feebly attempted rebuttals. All the incessant rambling, obfuscation and evasion fails to indict the validity of the above observation even one iota.
"Furthermore, the west had zero input into how the SLI was ordered by the NIC." Indeed. Sigh! All "you'se" mighty "spartans" are naught but innocent lambs and helpless little children. Understood. OK then. Go sit in the corner, as you have since 2007, and learn something about life.
Per: "The only thing worse a person could possibly do to another human being in this life would be to actually order a integrated seniority list by a person's seniority status." I'm happy for you that you've been blessed with so very sheltered a life...mighty "spartan".
Reed Richards
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- Sep 2, 2009
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"Crafted" falsely implies some sort of logical thought process. Old man NIC did not have that. A pilot with Seventeen years of unbroken service going behind a new hire? So stupid a caveman would see the folly. You cannot and will not ever see that award implemented on this property. RR (now tell me how little pay I get)
Agreed, Elise gets free meals. Her husband Russ Weber worked as a pilot for america west during their drug running years and scab years in australia.
traderjake
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- Aug 30, 2002
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They both had the same seniority on their respective lists.
You can play dumb the rest of your career but you'll never put a Reserve F/O ahead of a Captain on the same airplane.
Never.
Hey Russ, did you honeymoon in Australia and interduce your wife to your old friends. You were hired in 1987.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5t5aE0iW4o
CallawayGolf
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- Nov 13, 2009
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What was the seniority status of both? Was the east pilot mainline or MDA? If it was MDA then it wasn't unbroken mainline service. If it was all mainline then he must have had a very low seniority status.
No matter, you selected George Nicolau to determine the final outcome of the SLI and you gave him the full authority to determine your fate because you were unable to offer a solution that was found acceptable by both groups of pilots. Of course, if you think he got it wrong, you can ask him to modify it since he does retain exclusive jurisdiction over the award.
Thanks for perhaps even a Papal Indulgence, though I'm not of that faith, but I was already planning on maintaining a moral setting that you assign as "dumb". After 60+ years of life: Would you honestly even imagine I'd completely re-align all morality and thought processes, just so's to indulge the sacred nic?
Were I ever to meet Mr. Nic; I'd happily shake his hand and salute his war service with The Mighty Eighth, after which I'd equally cheerfully, ask of him just when and how he'd so completely and utterly lost his frikkin' mind so as to set forth his arbitration product here. Not myself being limited as some inexperienced and only wholly fantasized little "spartan"/"knight"/"dire wolf"; I'd imagine decent conversation might follow. No matter. None of us will ever have that chance.
And jake?....Some people can choose to "play dumb" their entire lives...just sayin'...
Russ Weber, know any of these guys? You were working during this time. Just asking.
"I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations, America West, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. They had purchased a DC 6 and embarked upon a career in the drug trade. Unfortunately for them their plane, which they maxed out electronically, had chronic engine problems which required them to touch down unexpectedly in several countries. This was more than embarrassing, since they had not filed flight plans. On one such emergency stop in Aruba, on the way back from Columbia, their plane was found packed with marijuana. There is reason to believe that their intended cargo was cocaine and that after a mix-up they did not wish to fly back empty. Despite the lofty positions these men held with America West, they seemed to have no difficulty getting time off for their drug flights, and America West wanted to rehire Russell after his six months in the Federal country club.
Twenty percent of the stock of AMERICA WEST AIRLINES was owned by ANSETT AIRLINES of Australia and 55% of ANSETT AIRLINES was held by Sir Peter Ables and Rupert Murdock. We know from Jonathan Kwitny 's book, the Crimes of Patriots, that Burny Houghton, perhaps the key figure in the founding of the CIA drug money laundering bank Nugan-Hand in Australia, had coffee with Sir Peter Ables the night of his first day in Australia. (Editor's note: Very few know that Michael Hand was one of the 5 top aids of General Edward Landsale. The CIA extraction of Michael Hand after the very, very doubtful sucicide of Frank Nugan came from Arizona. For that matter Tom Clines and David Morales grew up in Phoenix! bdq 8-12-97)
I watched Assistant U.S. Attorney James Lacey prosecute both rounds of this case. The three AMERICA WEST pilots had all plea bargained out. If they did not testify truthfully about the others in the case, they would be looking forward to serious time. Lacey prosecutes all the large narcotics cases in Arizona. Because he is the son of Frederic Lacey, the federal judge appointed by the Justice Department to be administrator of the Teamsters Union, Jim Lacey has unusual clout in the U.S. Attorney's office here. Although Lacey could not deny the pertinence of the information I gave him, it was clear that he did not want to know where this case ultimately led. I watched him play patty cake with the defendants when he should have been playing hard ball.
The plot began ia July of 1986 when Helmut Bubble called Thurston from Alaska and arranged a meeting at the ARIZONA BILTMORE RESORT HOTEL with Thurston and the other pilots. Ten days later they met again in Bangkok, Thailand to arrange their first cargo. Their original plan was to make their pick-up in communist Laos. One doesn't go to the great difficulty to travel to restricted Laos to purchase marijuana or Thai stick as the pilots claimed. Pot is legal in Thailand. One goes to Laos for heroin. Thurston testified that his cut of this first flight was to be one million dollars. When I ran the numbers for Lacey, it was obvious that only a heroin cargo would generate this amount of profit. With the DC 6, three or four flights a year would have provided the entire US requirement for heroin."
"I found the America West Airline drug trafficking trial fascinating. Patrick Thurston, Vice President of Operations, America West, Bob Russell, Chief of Pilots, and Carl Wobser, a captain, all pleaded guilty to multiple counts of narcotics trafficking. They had purchased a DC 6 and embarked upon a career in the drug trade. Unfortunately for them their plane, which they maxed out electronically, had chronic engine problems which required them to touch down unexpectedly in several countries. This was more than embarrassing, since they had not filed flight plans. On one such emergency stop in Aruba, on the way back from Columbia, their plane was found packed with marijuana. There is reason to believe that their intended cargo was cocaine and that after a mix-up they did not wish to fly back empty. Despite the lofty positions these men held with America West, they seemed to have no difficulty getting time off for their drug flights, and America West wanted to rehire Russell after his six months in the Federal country club.
Twenty percent of the stock of AMERICA WEST AIRLINES was owned by ANSETT AIRLINES of Australia and 55% of ANSETT AIRLINES was held by Sir Peter Ables and Rupert Murdock. We know from Jonathan Kwitny 's book, the Crimes of Patriots, that Burny Houghton, perhaps the key figure in the founding of the CIA drug money laundering bank Nugan-Hand in Australia, had coffee with Sir Peter Ables the night of his first day in Australia. (Editor's note: Very few know that Michael Hand was one of the 5 top aids of General Edward Landsale. The CIA extraction of Michael Hand after the very, very doubtful sucicide of Frank Nugan came from Arizona. For that matter Tom Clines and David Morales grew up in Phoenix! bdq 8-12-97)
I watched Assistant U.S. Attorney James Lacey prosecute both rounds of this case. The three AMERICA WEST pilots had all plea bargained out. If they did not testify truthfully about the others in the case, they would be looking forward to serious time. Lacey prosecutes all the large narcotics cases in Arizona. Because he is the son of Frederic Lacey, the federal judge appointed by the Justice Department to be administrator of the Teamsters Union, Jim Lacey has unusual clout in the U.S. Attorney's office here. Although Lacey could not deny the pertinence of the information I gave him, it was clear that he did not want to know where this case ultimately led. I watched him play patty cake with the defendants when he should have been playing hard ball.
The plot began ia July of 1986 when Helmut Bubble called Thurston from Alaska and arranged a meeting at the ARIZONA BILTMORE RESORT HOTEL with Thurston and the other pilots. Ten days later they met again in Bangkok, Thailand to arrange their first cargo. Their original plan was to make their pick-up in communist Laos. One doesn't go to the great difficulty to travel to restricted Laos to purchase marijuana or Thai stick as the pilots claimed. Pot is legal in Thailand. One goes to Laos for heroin. Thurston testified that his cut of this first flight was to be one million dollars. When I ran the numbers for Lacey, it was obvious that only a heroin cargo would generate this amount of profit. With the DC 6, three or four flights a year would have provided the entire US requirement for heroin."
Reed Richards
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- Sep 2, 2009
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George indeed maintains jurisdiction over the award, one that will always exist in stasis as an example of just how failed a bargaining agent can be. Other than the example of our seventeen year pilot, you won't hear me argue particulars on a bargaining position that was part of a failed ALPA process. As to MDA, I do not subscribe to the Company position on those pilots. It’s up to the union to negotiate their proper position on a list, standalone combined or M/B. RR
snapthis
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