August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[Pi brat]

Again Res, why so angry? I thought a toothless USAPA made you happy.

I'm reading the day one transcript a little at time, as much as I can take. I thought Holmes' testimony was striking, how about you? It reminded me of another issue that was debated on here and the west had a field day with-the LOA 93 snap back agreement. Remember that?

USAPA tried to say that the contract we voted for, LOA 93, had a provision to snap back to our former wages. The company said it didn't, but the language was pretty confusing. I thought we we lose and here's why. I actually read LOA 93 before voting on it, I didn't take anyone's word for what it meant, and the language in question caught my eye. I went to my rep for clarification and he said in no uncertain terms that the pay would not snap back and I shouldn't vote for LOA 93 thinking it would. Well for many different reasons I voted for LOA 93(regret it now, it was overreaching and unnecessary in many areas, but I had little faith in our negotiating committee and ALPA to do any better), warts and all. I knew what I was voting for and I didn't expect to get anything better until the time the company was in a position to, and needed to, renegotiate it.

I see the same situation for the west here. There is no way anyone with a brain can honestly say there was any doubt about the Nic and the MOU. Holmes testified that he didn't like the language and wanted it changed. He didn't succeed, but he and AOL advised their pilots to vote for it anyway. You bought the car, just like we bought LOA 93. What you are doing now is just like what USAPA tried to do with the snap back.

What did "no west pilot should vote FOR the MOU thinking that it will implement the Nicolau award" mean to you?

 

[Phoenix]

BLAH, blah, blah...poor USCABA...nobody understands...nobody gets it...America sucks

No, I don't want you to have any sympathy. You want a DFR and you gotta prove it. No sympathy needed, just a law that USAPA broke, and facts...

The point is Judge Silver never signed, or published any supposed "order" for USAPA to consider the Nic in any negotiations, but she seems convince in her own mind that she could find USAPA guilty of DFR for failing to follow her "order" to at least consider the Nic (which by testimony is obvious they didn't really do so, and don't intend to do so).

She encouraged Marty to talk at great length about how USAPA failed to follow her order. That is a fact, and recorded in the transcript on the page I already pointed out to you.

I don't think she has what it takes to close the deal for you guys and actually publish that USAPA is guilty of a DFR based on an order she never published, rather than for breaching a SCOTUS standard that was published. We shall see. Just remember, Wake was an amateur.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I assume the NMB (not the NLRB) has an obligation to protect the RLA from misinterpretation, misapplication, or willful disregard on the part of any 'activist' judge.

I doubt they have any enforcement powers at all. If someone or something breaks the RLA, chances are there will be involved parties filing suit. Absent that, I imagine the NMB could also file a suit in federal court.

The DOJ could not unilaterally stop the AA-US merger on the basis of their perceived violation of the law (Clayton Act?). Their only option was the court system.

 

[nycbusdriver]

No, I don't want you to have any sympathy. You want a DFR and you gotta prove it.

It's incredible that they think the burden is on USAPA to prove that they are not violating their DFR. That's where their argument will ultimately fall apart because USAPA is working within established law and Supreme Court precedent. USAPA doesn't need teeth. The court system, with its appeals process, has plenty.

 

[Piedmont1984]

This trial reminds me of the LOA93 grievance. Never mind what the document actually says, just focus on what the framers meant. Concentrate on the machinations which went on behind the scenes and before the language was finally inked. I didn't buy that argument with LOA93 and still don't now. Section 10h was one of the few sections which was clear to me. It did not endorse either the Nic or DOH. The MOU did not settle the east/west dispute. It was every pilot's responsibility to read the actual language, decide and vote. You don't sign a contract and then argue that the author meant something other than the actual words.

This trial was one big diversion and (unless Silver's rhetoric and body language these past months are one huge head fake) a trip to the 9th seems a forgone conclusion.

'84

 

[Reed Richards]

I don't think she has what it takes to close the deal for you guys and actually publish that USAPA is guilty of a DFR based on an order she never published, rather than for breaching a SCOTUS standard that was published.

I have not even read the day 2 transcript yet, but think she will do the dirty deed. She has already cost us all hundreds of thousands in unnecessary legal fees; she might as well continue the party so she can impress Siegel. We are headed for the Ninth anyway, no matter what, might as well sit back and enjoy the ride. RR

 

[electricjet98]

I have not even read the day 2 transcript yet, but think she will do the dirty deed. She has already cost us all hundreds of thousands in unnecessary legal fees; she might as well continue the party so she can impress Siegel. We are headed for the Ninth anyway, no matter what, might as well sit back and enjoy the ride. RR

Actually, as Bradford admitted to in his video-taped deposition it is USAPA that has cost us all hundreds of thousands...and more.

 

[Claxon]

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. you have USCABA, the nearly 6 year failed experiment. The Spartans absolutely mopped the floor with your scab brethren in court today, but the real losers are the retiring guys. Scabford admits how much money this pointless,futile war the East started but can't finish has been. He claims north of 600 million. My guess is it's more than double than what's reported

Holy cow! Res is an angry man! No wonder the FBI canned him right out of the gate. This psychopath would have been hand in hand with Bybee waterboarding shoplifters in the Target parking lot.

 

[Claxon]

It's incredible that they think the burden is on USAPA to prove that they are not violating their DFR. That's where their argument will ultimately fall apart because USAPA is working within established law and Supreme Court precedent. USAPA doesn't need teeth. The court system, with its appeals process, has plenty.

The america west pilots depend on a dysfunctional legal arena to promulgate and support their strange legal missions. Unfortunately for them and their wacky judges, their ideas hold no merit when they are reviewed in rational legal venues out of AZ.

 

[Claxon]

BLAH, blah, blah...poor USCABA...nobody understands...nobody gets it...America sucks

Thank heavens for polygraphs. Score one for the FBI.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The america west pilots depend on a dysfunctional legal arena to promulgate and support their strange legal missions......

Pot, meet Kettle. If not for the usapa experiment, we could have been hammering it out within ALPO, leaving competing areas of law, and the lawyers, out of it.

 

[Phoenix]

I have not even read the day 2 transcript yet, but think she will do the dirty deed. She has already cost us all hundreds of thousands in unnecessary legal fees; she might as well continue the party so she can impress Siegel. We are headed for the Ninth anyway, no matter what, might as well sit back and enjoy the ride. RR

She talks a good talk and may well do it. She can buffalo USAPA in HER court with demands they follow her "order" the she never published, but will she publishes an on order of remedy based on such a dubious DFR standard... Maybe she is that blind, but last time she thought better of herself and pulled her punch, found for USAPA reluctantly, and only mustered a little quibbling cheater phrase "provided they have an LUP".

She needs an exit strategy.

 

[Pi brat]

Pot, meet Kettle. If not for the usapa experiment, we could have been hammering it out within ALPO, leaving competing areas of law, and the lawyers, out of it.

I can say that I hope to never have another attorney representing me, for anything!

 

[luvthe9]

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. you have USCABA, the nearly 6 year failed experiment. The Spartans absolutely mopped the floor with your scab brethren in court today, but the real losers are the retiring guys. Scabford admits how much money this pointless,futile war the East started but can't finish has been. He claims north of 600 million. My guess is it's more than double than what's reported

This guy has got to worry the company. If he comes in to work with a golf bag, run....

 

[end_of_alpa]

Pot, meet Kettle. If not for the usapa experiment, we could have been hammering it out within ALPO, leaving competing areas of law, and the lawyers, out of it.

Riggghhhttttt!