August 2013 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

The profit sharing was agreed to by the East MEC reps long BEFORE the NIC even came out. It was the unanimous decision at the time, and correct in retrospect even now.

Viewing it purely through the lens of tactical advantage/disadvantage; it was clearly a foolish gesture, but if one truly believes in unionist principles of any kind, then it must be seen, even in retrospect, as the right thing to do. All of a same class and craft should be treated with equal respect within any supposed union, or else you have nothing worthy of that name.

 

[Res Judicata]

Viewing it purely through the lens of tactical advantage; it was clearly a foolish gesture, but if one truly believes in unionist principles of any kind, then it must be seen, even in retrospect, as the right thing to do. All of a same class and craft should be treated with equal respect within any supposed union, or else you have nothing worthy of that name.

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. you have USCABA, the nearly 6 year failed experiment. The Spartans absolutely mopped the floor with your scab brethren in court today, but the real losers are the retiring guys. Scabford admits how much money this pointless,futile war the East started but can't finish has been. He claims north of 600 million. My guess is it's more than double than what's reported

 

[EastUS1]

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. ...... but the real losers are the retiring guys.

And a kind and equally "respectful" salutation to you, mighty young "spartan". We must differ on who "the real losers are". As one of the not-too-distantly "retiring guys", I can assure you that I sleep better at night knowing that I kept my promise to never vote the nic obscenity into existence, and thus afford charming little princes/princesses like yourself the chance to magically become "senior", without the slightest deserving reason, to people I've flown with for many years. I've no apologies to comfort "you'se" with in regards to any personal principles involved, and I couldn't possibly care less about your entirely unearned, childish arrogance, your personal discomfort, nor your obvious inability to adequately process and present either cogent thought or even decent expression of any kind.

If that constitutes "losing", well...I'd not trade it for all the riches of "sparta". If such notions qualify me as "an anachronistic douch bag" within what you amazingly presume to be your-some-any-semblance of a supposed "mind", I've no frets, concerns or any worries whatsoever about that. The world is much larger than the nic. See listings under: Sounds like a personal problem.

 

[mrbreeze]

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. you have USCABA, the nearly 6 year failed experiment. The Spartans absolutely mopped the floor with your scab brethren in court today, but the real losers are the retiring guys. Scabford admits how much money this pointless,futile war the East started but can't finish has been. He claims north of 600 million. My guess is it's more than double than what's reported

There's that narrow minded thinking that you are so famous for.......pilots facing retirement are not as stupid as you might think, junior. That's the problem with you young guys, you never look at the reality of getting close to the end of your career. Many guys on the East are already drawing their $28,800/yr from PBGC. Personally, on top of that, I have been playing with the AMR stock options in my Brokerage account in my 401k ( something you West guys do not have access to). In the last year, I have increased my 401k by $184,000 just by buying and selling AMR's stock. I for one am a happy camper. A word of advice, junior....don't put your eggs all in one basket, especially one with AOL's endorsement. ......breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

You have NOTHING of the sort you anachronistic douch bag. you have USCABA, the nearly 6 year failed experiment. The Spartans absolutely mopped the floor with your scab brethren in court today, but the real losers are the retiring guys. Scabford admits how much money this pointless,futile war the East started but can't finish has been. He claims north of 600 million. My guess is it's more than double than what's reported

Res Judacaca......do a little math for me here. You take an A330 FO's pay rate of $112/hr plus $28,800/yr from PBGC....that equals what? Pretty close to what a West Captain makes? Now, not even counting my luck with the AMR stock......you feel sorry for the retiring guys? Give me a break.....we can do this for eternity if we have to. Sure beats accepting the NIC! You guys should have come off the NIC a long time ago. breeze

 

[traderjake]

You know the reason the West got profit sharing was it was meant to be the consolation prize, the salve for the wound of having the East prevail with Nicolau. You know, date of hire and all that..

Instead the East got the "Cactus" call sign...funny the way things turn out.

The profit sharing was agreed to by the East MEC reps long BEFORE the NIC even came out..

Where did N924PS say it was after?

The East MEC assumed they were going to win and thought they could buy off the West with profit sharing.

 

[EastUS1]

The framers of this countries constitution are widely regarded as a collection of the most comprehensive intellectuals to have assembled in the last 1000 years. Believe it or not, you arrogant, delusional ####
,

"The framers of this countries constitution are widely regarded as a collection of the most comprehensive intellectuals.." I may have missed it, but it does sadly seem that you're not actually noted in any published history as being among them....? What's your supposed point? Oh! How could I have missed the obviously intended similarity with some of the finest minds in human history? = "Believe it or not, you arrogant, delusional ####"?

" they expressed themselves without the benefit of verbosity" Really? Try actually reading their written thoughts some day, (start with The Federalist Papers perhaps) and then get back to us all afterwards.

Not to improperly assail, or ever insult one of our very Founding Fathers here, but you do realize that "countries" as used by you above, should be "country's"/possessive, not plural?

Res: "I've benefitted from rather exclusive private educational institutions in my life, but I've found nothing in the English language is as succinct and efficient as the occasional vulgarity." Then it's abundantly clear that your parents just wasted their money, and they should properly demand a full refund.

Sleep it off Res. You'll at least "feel" smarter in the morning, I'm sure...."Dude".

 

[mrbreeze]

The framers of this countries constitution are widely regarded as a collection of the most comprehensive intellectuals to have assembled in the last 1000 years. Believe it or not, you arrogant, delusional ####
, they expressed themselves without the benefit of verbosity and a childish proclivity for emoticons....something that for yourself, is unfortunately not the case. I've benefitted from rather exclusive private educational institutions in my life, but I've found nothing in the English language is as succinct and efficient as the occasional vulgarity.

So respecting that tradition, I invite you to shove your dime store blather straight up your scab ass. In actuality, which end that is, is regretfully indecipherable to the outside observer.

I must say that if anyone on this board has ever hit a nerve and been right on the money, you have done it East, and in a very tactful, logical way. nice. breeze

 

[end_of_alpa]

The framers of this countries constitution are widely regarded as a collection of the most comprehensive intellectuals to have assembled in the last 1000 years. Believe it or not, you arrogant, delusional ####
, they expressed themselves without the benefit of verbosity and a childish proclivity for emoticons....something that for yourself, is unfortunately not the case. I've benefitted from rather exclusive private educational institutions in my life, but I've found nothing in the English language is as succinct and efficient as the occasional vulgarity.

So respecting that tradition, I invite you to shove your dime store blather straight up your scab ass. In actuality, which end that is, is regretfully indecipherable to the outside observer.

Must have been a bad couple days for you. GFYS, SCAB. I just communicate with Westicles in only a language they are capable of understanding. Rational, reasonable and logical conversation eludes them.

 

[767one]

Ha!

That is the most ClearDirect report about how things went for the West today! Aren't you supposed to be toasting with balloons and band music?

Res does seem to be in a bit of a mood although it really is hard to tell the pissed off Res from the happy res. As far a how things went....I think that is anybody's guess.

All the best,

Bob

 

[snapthis]

Communications Committee
USAPA Update on Addington II

Day two of the Addington II trial resumed at 08:45 MST, October 23, 2013 in Phoenix. Among the approximate 80 pilots in the courtroom observing the trial were USAPA Executive VP Steve Smyser, Secretary-Treasurer Rob Streble, BPR members John Scherff, Roger Velez, Courtney Borman, Paul DiOrio, Paul Music, and John Taylor; along with P4P Chairman Glenn Kunkel and Communications Chairman James Ray.
Throughout the day, there were mid-morning and mid-afternoon breaks as well as a lunch break of approximately one hour and 20 minutes. The remainder of the day was spent with USAPA witnesses. The day began continuing the testimony of Negotiating Advisory Committee Chairman Dean Colello who was followed by NAC member John Owens. The Plaintiffs then played portions of Vice President Bradford’s video deposition, which had been taken previously. That was followed by testimony from USAPA witnesses Jess Pauley, Merger Committee Chairman, and Bob Davison, a member of the Merger Committee.
At 16:11, USAPA rested.
NO DECISIONS WERE RENDERED AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE DAY.
Judge Silver then directed both parties to submit summaries of the evidence in this case of no more than 15 pages by October 31 and responses to these summaries of no more than 10 pages by November 6. Judge Silver also said that she would issue an order requiring expedited briefing of the outstanding motions for summary judgment filed by USAPA and US Airways. These motions primarily address Claim IV of the Complaint which alleges that the Plaintiffs are entitled (but not required) to participate separately in the seniority integration proceeding.
The Court adjourned at 16:20 MST.
The final court transcript for day one of the hearing (October 22, 2013), is now available and posted in the Legal Library: Transcript of Proceedings - Day One.
USAPA Communications

Why the vague update?

Cactuspilot.com has the transcripts of the depositions and will be posting them.

Here's an excerpt from Bradford's deposition who had some explaining to do about USAPA and the company being in concert.

25· · · ·Q.· ·I'm going to show you, Mr. Bradford, and
·1· this may be our last document, what I've identified
·2· as Exhibit 1062, e-mail from you to Mr. Pauley and
·3· others, April 25, 2013.
·4· · · · · · Did you write this e-mail?
·5· · · ·A.· ·Apparently so, yes.
·6· · · ·Q.· ·You write in the first paragraph, Jess,
·7· Jess raised the question of the dismissal of the
·8· pled, P-L-E-D, preliminary injunction in Addington I.
·9· Here is that decision.· In Addington II, Roman
10· numeral two, the court dismissed the company because
11· they were not in cohorts with USAPA.
12· · · · · · Then you continue to write, here the union
13· and the company are in concert.· We have agreed to a
14· new seniority process that does not include the
15· Nicolau award.
16· · · · · · What did you mean by that?
17· · · ·A.· ·We've just -- just what it says.· We
18· have -- the company and the union and APA and the
19· parties to the MOU have agreed on a new process for
20· seniority that is not tied to the old transition
21· agreement.
22· · · ·Q.· ·It does not include the Nicolau?
23· · · ·A.· ·It -- it -- that could be a misstatement.
24· It includes a new process.· If the board wants the
25· Nic, they could have the Nic.
·1· · · ·Q.· ·But that didn't -- that's not what you
·2· wrote.· You -- you wrote you're in cohorts -- cohorts
·3· with the --
·4· · · · · · MS. AXEL:· Cahoots.
·5· · · ·Q.· ·-- cahoots with the company, Airways,
·6· because you agreed to a new seniority process that
·7· does not include the Nicolau.
·8· · · ·A.· ·We factored --
·9· · · ·Q.· ·Those were your -- those are your words --
10· · · ·A.· ·No, the words are --
11· · · ·Q.· ·No, let me -- let me, let me.· Those are
12· your words and your e-mail on April 25, 2013,
13· correct?
14· · · ·A.· ·Incorrect.
15· · · ·Q.· ·Why?
16· · · ·A.· ·We're not in cahoots with the company,
17· we've acted in concert with the company.
18· · · ·Q.· ·Concert.
19· · · · · · What's the difference?
20· · · ·A.· ·We sat at the table, negotiated, arrived
21· at an MOU with all the parties which provides for a
22· new seniority process.
23· · · ·Q.· ·And you still believe that?
24· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· And that process --
25· · · ·Q.· ·That does not include the Nicolau?
·1· · · ·A.· ·Well, it's neutral on its terms.
·2· · · ·Q.· ·You say it eliminated the -- the
·3· requirement to use the -- the Nicolau.· So how can
·4· that be neutral?
·5· · · ·A.· ·Because the Nicolau award or date of hire
·6· or any other seniority solution and outcome does
·7· not appear in the document.
·8· · · ·Q.· ·Just because it doesn't appear, it's
·9· neutral?
10· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
11· · · ·Q.· ·But the effect of it is -- from your point
12· of view is to take away the requirement to use the
13· Nicolau?
14· · · ·A.· ·Yes, the transition agreement has been
15· amended, that is correct.
16· · · ·Q.· ·All right.· And to set up a process where
17· the majority is going to rule what's presented to the
18· McCaskill-Bond committee?
19· · · ·A.· ·Without any negotiation, yes.

 

[snapthis]

Sounds like you and Marty didn't fare very well today.

How did it go day 2?

Based on what I saw, Dean Colello is the cure for insomnia, Bob Davidson left his dentures at the hotel, Jess Pauly needs to listen to the question before answering and James Ray should not play with his device in court.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Come on N924PS. You are uninformed, and obviously still smarting about a stupid call sign. Get a life. Who cares about a call sign. The profit sharing was agreed to by the East MEC reps long BEFORE the NIC even came out. It was the unanimous decision at the time, and correct in retrospect even now. Funny also how "out of touch" low info pilots show up here with bad info and stupid premises. RR

Was it unanimous? I recall something that the MEC was evenly split on, and Pollock (as the MEC Chair) had to cast a deciding vote. I thought it was the profit sharing. If profit sharing was unanimous, then what did Pollock give to the west back then that has since earned him permanent disgust from the membership?

 

[snapthis]

What do Jess and Miss Teen SC have in common? LTTFQ.

 

[Reed Richards]

Was it unanimous? I recall something that the MEC was evenly split on, and Pollock (as the MEC Chair) had to cast a deciding vote. I thought it was the profit sharing. If profit sharing was unanimous, then what did Pollock give to the west back then that has since earned him permanent disgust from the membership?

Jack was the President for the profit sharing, the vote was unanimous, no tie breaking needed. I was there, sat on the subcommittee that heard the issue, and voted. As to Pollock, it was his bypass of the Neg. Committee bringing in the LOA 93 "number" that sealed his legacy. The Neg. Committee was castrated, but at least they stayed on to make the best of what they could with what Pollock gave them. The profit sharing had quite a few angles. But for me it was simple, the West would for sure have grieved the issue, and that would have tied up the moneys (around 7 or 8K per C/O I believe) for over a year. The moneys were not set aside, had the Company lost money over that year the Company could have just spent them. Cost each East guy about $700 or so, but better than a year wait, possible loss of the funds, or about a 50% chance the West would win the grievance anyway. It is not real clear, but there is an argument in the T/A they had it coming anyway. RR