Arpey Could Give American A Fresh Start ?

[Busdrvr]

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On 5/12/2003 6:25:21 PM buzzkill wrote:


"Operating like a nascar pit crew, Southwest''s mechanics pride themselves on changing airplane tires faster than their counterparts at other airlines. And mechanics at Southwest don''t use the standard $500 tool to remove the magnetic device that detects metal chips in engine oil, as other mechanics do; they simply and quickly use their hand to pop it out. "Those tools are a waste," says a mechanic.""

(don''t flame me, I know AMR has the second best mechs in the industry, just making a point) AMR''s mechanics used to use a method for installing the engines and pylons on the DC-10. seemed like a good idea, saved time and all, but it was contrary to MD''s procedures. they quit using the procedure after a pylon failed and caused the crash of a DC-10. I get chills when i hear about people who deviate from the manufacturers procedures.


"Here is an excerpt: "The employee-owners of United, in
common with many of their colleagues at
other carriers, are looking for someone else
to blame for their airline’s financial distress
and for a solution that will make the
company profitable without labor’s
incurring any pain. But these airline labor spokesmen don’t
understand the mathematics. Labor
accounted for 41% of total airline costs in
the year ended June 30, 2001 and
44% of the cost differential between
Southwest and the other Majors."


What is labors percent of total cost at SWA? how about the majors before 911 (before the costly cutbacks)? They were about the same. SWA utilizes ALL it''s assests better. It''s part of the business model and part of the reason SWA will never provide service to as many cities as the majors. The hub and spoke model dictates the inefficient use of assets. What the article doesn''t say, is that to get the same number of flight hours out of a mainline pilot as a SWA pilot, the pilot would have to likely work an additional 7-8 days a month (8-9 days MORE than the SWA pilot). An SWA pilot typically works FEWER days now than a mainline guy. It is the AIRLINE that chooses to waste my time (as well as let jets sit around) NOT MINE. The scary thing is the new pilot contract at UAL dictates SWA style productivity, it just means pilots will be away from home up to 380 hours a month now (no thanks, I''d rather sit home and watch Oprah on the government dole)
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[buzzkill]

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On 5/13/2003 8:38:33 PM Busdrvr wrote:

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On 5/12/2003 6:25:21 PM buzzkill wrote:


"Operating like a nascar pit crew, Southwest''s mechanics pride themselves on changing airplane tires faster than their counterparts at other airlines. And mechanics at Southwest don''t use the standard $500 tool to remove the magnetic device that detects metal chips in engine oil, as other mechanics do; they simply and quickly use their hand to pop it out. "Those tools are a waste," says a mechanic.""

(don''t flame me, I know AMR has the second best mechs in the industry, just making a point) AMR''s mechanics used to use a method for installing the engines and pylons on the DC-10. seemed like a good idea, saved time and all, but it was contrary to MD''s procedures. they quit using the procedure after a pylon failed and caused the crash of a DC-10. I get chills when i hear about people who deviate from the manufacturers procedures.


"Here is an excerpt: "The employee-owners of United, in
common with many of their colleagues at
other carriers, are looking for someone else
to blame for their airline’s financial distress
and for a solution that will make the
company profitable without labor’s
incurring any pain. But these airline labor spokesmen don’t
understand the mathematics. Labor
accounted for 41% of total airline costs in
the year ended June 30, 2001 and
44% of the cost differential between
Southwest and the other Majors."


What is labors percent of total cost at SWA? how about the majors before 911 (before the costly cutbacks)? They were about the same. SWA utilizes ALL it''s assests better. It''s part of the business model and part of the reason SWA will never provide service to as many cities as the majors. The hub and spoke model dictates the inefficient use of assets. What the article doesn''t say, is that to get the same number of flight hours out of a mainline pilot as a SWA pilot, the pilot would have to likely work an additional 7-8 days a month (8-9 days MORE than the SWA pilot). An SWA pilot typically works FEWER days now than a mainline guy. It is the AIRLINE that chooses to waste my time (as well as let jets sit around) NOT MINE. The scary thing is the new pilot contract at UAL dictates SWA style productivity, it just means pilots will be away from home up to 380 hours a month now (no thanks, I''d rather sit home and watch Oprah on the government dole)
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No doubt that there is a lot of lost productivity because of AA''s hub and spoke business model. However, if you read the analysis done by Unisys (the link is in my original post), you may have a hard time concluding that all the differences in productivity are due to the hub and spoke business model. The Unisys piece has a compelling analysis of WN pilots versus UA, AA, etc. This is hardly a "magazine article" as Bob Owens calls it. This is an in depth analysis with a lot of graphs and numbers that is not a quick read.

I know that comparing contracts from one airline to another is very difficult as there is imperfect information, and a lot of apples and oranges comparisons. My original point was to Winglet, who likes to point out that AA needs a new business model, but won''t give any solutions. Winglet seems to like the WN business model. My question is how could AA become WN? Are you saying that if AA scrapped the hub and spoke system, quit flying internationally, scrapped MRTC and first class, went to one fleet type, and sold Eagle that the current union contracts allow AA to be as productive as WN? And even if they did, how would AA accomplish all the other things it would need to do to adopt the WN business model? Bottom line - it is easy to complain about the Arpey business model, and it is hard to come up with alternative business model solutions.

 

[Winglet]

AA is a full-route, international carrier. It can't become WN, but has to compete with them, even if it's in the "head" of the customer.

If WN and JB can cherry pick only high density routes, that leaves the less or non-profitable ones for the majors to service. That means much higher fares for those routes. However, the American consumer could care less about realities. All they see is that the 200 mile trip they want to take from their hometown to somewhere costs a lot more than the 800 mile trip on a high density route, and they think they're getting ripped off.

The average American is virtually totally ignorant about the realities of a national air transportation industry, just like foreign affairs, etc. They depend on the government to manage it and so far the government has had feet of clay . . . . as long as fares are cheap. Whether we have a coherent system 2 years from now is not on their radar scope.

My complaint about Mr. Arpey is that his current model isn't going to allow the company to survive the 2 years before Mr. Bush can be voted out of office and the economy revives. That's why Mr. Arpey is being paid huge compensation. Providing strategic planning ensuring the economic survival of the company is not a pilot's job, it's Mr. Arpey's.

 

[buzzkill]

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On 5/14/2003 11:35:23 AM Winglet wrote:

AA is a full-route, international carrier. It can''t become WN, but has to compete with them, even if it''s in the "head" of the customer.

If WN and JB can cherry pick only high density routes, that leaves the less or non-profitable ones for the majors to service. That means much higher fares for those routes. However, the American consumer could care less about realities. All they see is that the 200 mile trip they want to take from their hometown to somewhere costs a lot more than the 800 mile trip on a high density route, and they think they''re getting ripped off.

The average American is virtually totally ignorant about the realities of a national air transportation industry, just like foreign affairs, etc. They depend on the government to manage it and so far the government has had feet of clay . . . . as long as fares are cheap. Whether we have a coherent system 2 years from now is not on their radar scope.

My complaint about Mr. Arpey is that his current model isn''t going to allow the company to survive the 2 years before Mr. Bush can be voted out of office and the economy revives. That''s why Mr. Arpey is being paid huge compensation. Providing strategic planning ensuring the economic survival of the company is not a pilot''s job, it''s Mr. Arpey''s.

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You keep saying that it is not the pilot''s job to develop strategy for the company, which I think we can all agree on. However, from your posts, you seem to think it is your job to complain. It is always easy to complain and offer no solutions because it does not require any effort, research, or serious thought.

So, judging from your posts, is it the pilot''s job to whine and moan about Arpey, but offer absolutely no solutions? If so, then I will agree to disagree.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/14/2003 9:24:33 AM buzzkill wrote:

This is hardly a "magazine article" as Bob Owens calls it. This is an in depth analysis with a lot of graphs and numbers that is not a quick read.


Yea well we made our graphs too. Like you said, its difficult to make comparasions. With maint its a little easier, and the costs are much closer.

We make less per hour than SWA. We have less benifits. But we have MRTC! (Which distorts our costs per ASM). We have hubs and spokes and we have tons of airplanes that sit unlinked all day long, day after day that some leasing company is getting paid for!
We got the biggest most expensive terminal in the Northeast going up! We are the biggest airline. Oh did I add that we get half the holidays that just about everyone else gets and at less pay too? Same for sick time with the first two days at half pay.

Enough with the pilots already, I think that everyone has a pretty clear understanding that there is no way that our system could reasonably expect the same productivity as SWA.​

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/14/2003 9:24:33 AM buzzkill wrote:

This is hardly a "magazine article" as Bob Owens calls it. This is an in depth analysis with a lot of graphs and numbers that is not a quick read.


Yea well we made our graphs too. Like you said, its difficult to make comparasions. With maint its a little easier, and the costs are much closer.

We make less per hour than SWA. We have less benifits. But we have MRTC! (Which distorts our costs per ASM). We have hubs and spokes and we have tons of airplanes that sit unlinked all day long, day after day that some leasing company is getting paid for!
We got the biggest most expensive terminal in the Northeast going up! We are the biggest airline. Oh did I add that we get half the holidays that just about everyone else gets and at less pay too? Same for sick time with the first two days at half pay.

Enough with the pilots already, I think that everyone has a pretty clear understanding that there is no way that our system could reasonably expect the same productivity as SWA.​

 

[buzzkill]

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On 5/15/2003 853 PM Bob Owens wrote:

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On 5/14/2003 9:24:33 AM buzzkill wrote:

 This is hardly a "magazine article" as Bob Owens calls it.  This is an in depth analysis with a lot of graphs and numbers that is not a quick read.


Yea well we made our graphs too. Like you said, its difficult to make comparasions. With maint its a little easier, and the costs are much closer.

We make less per hour than SWA. We have less benifits. But we have MRTC! (Which distorts our costs per ASM). We have hubs and spokes and we have tons of airplanes that sit unlinked all day long, day after day that some leasing company is getting paid for!
We got the biggest most expensive terminal in the Northeast going up! We are the biggest airline. Oh did I add that we get half the holidays that just about everyone else gets and at less pay too? Same for sick time with the first two days at half pay.

Enough with the pilots already, I think that everyone has a pretty clear understanding that there is no way that our system could reasonably expect the same productivity as SWA.​

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Did you read the study? It is quite compelling, and done by a third party with no real skin in the game.

 

[Bob Owens]

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On 5/16/2003 11:13:45 AM buzzkill wrote:

Did you read the study? It is quite compelling, and done by a third party with no real skin in the game.

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No I did not.

No real skin in the game? If that was the case why would they put forth the effort to make such a report? "Goodwill"?