Arpey is sharing in the pain!

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

There's another CLASS WARFARE defender right there, Ladies and Gentleman....
The fats cats at the top getting "theirs" at the expense of the "have nots.

BRAVO! Frugal, BRAVO.

Outstanding comment and observation.

Instead of complaining, for at least ~7 years now of how due to concessions you have become a have not, why not leave this cr@ppy job/company and use your 'skills' to get one of those many many better paying jobs? Could it be that there isn't any available and AA is the best (only?) option you have?

 

[FWAAA]

Instead of complaining, for at least ~7 years now of how due to concessions you have become a have not, why not leave this cr@ppy job/company and use your 'skills' to get one of those many many better paying jobs? Could it be that there isn't any available and AA is the best (only?) option you have?

I can understand why they stayed up until now. In 2003, very few people correctly predicted that oil would hit $147/bbl within five years and that the entire legacy airline industry would see a lost decade. No doubt AANOTOK thought that once AA recovered, they'd be able to recoup the concessions and then some - "restore and more" once the early openers happened in 2006. They were blindsided by the nearly nine-year financial crisis gripping AA. Had they seen it coming, I'd bet that more would have left in 2003 or shortly thereafter.

That doesn't explain why they haven't left in the last couple of years, once it became apparent that recovery wasn't just around the corner and that AA might never recover.

 

[Bagbelt]

I and many others have. After 2 years at my new job I'm making $5 an hour more than after 15 years at AA. Half the guys I work with are ex a/c mechanics. I think most people don't realize that employees with the exception of 2001-2003 have been working under concessionary contracts since 1983. If the best that can happen in boom times are 1.5 % raises than anyone under 45 has to wonder how much longer it is worth it if even second string outfits are paying more..

 

[Hopeful]

Instead of complaining, for at least ~7 years now of how due to concessions you have become a have not, why not leave this cr@ppy job/company and use your 'skills' to get one of those many many better paying jobs? Could it be that there isn't any available and AA is the best (only?) option you have?

No, I am not to far from retirement. I do not wish to go elsewhere and would prefer to keep my "morale" with AA.

One has to wonder why some people who left AA some time ago for greener pastures continue to post here and preach the work of AA.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

No, I am not to far from retirement. I do not wish to go elsewhere and would prefer to keep my "morale" with AA.

Then suck it up until its time to punch out for the last time. All this jelousy about how much execs earn compared to your salary and how terrible your compensation is probably causing a lot of stress which at your age is not good for your health, old timer

One has to wonder why some people who left AA some time ago for greener pastures continue to post here and preach the work of AA.

I've have never been employed by AA (or AMR) and will continue to post where I please.

 

[Hopeful]

Then suck it up until its time to punch out for the last time. All this jelousy about how much execs earn compared to your salary and how terrible your compensation is probably causing a lot of stress which at your age is not good for your health, old timer

If you have read many of my posts, I have repeatedly said PRIOR to concessions, I could have cared less what an executive made, let alone anyone else. If you have read many of my posts, I have repeatedly said my anger towards management began when they never stopped their PUPS pay while we got pennies. I have every right to post here and complain about this company. I have given this company three and half decades of my life and at one time loved working for this company.
As for my age, how do you know how old I am?
And there is no stress in my life, just anger and bitterness towards a management, who like many others, took advantage of the labor force and launched an all out attack to undo 40 years of labor gains.
And guess what?If you think you are insulting me with the "OLD TIMER" remark, try again, I wear it like a badge of honor.
Ok, son?

I've have never been employed by AA (or AMR) and will continue to post where I please.

Actually I was referring to Eolesen.
And like you, I will continue to post where I please complaining about how greedy AA execs are..

Deal?

 

[Hopeful]

AApologist? Management defender? Try worshipper of imprisoned white collar criminals.

I've been labeled an apologist and management defender for over nine years between this forum and PlaneBusiness.

And what have us union folk been labeled on this forum?

There's a different set of rules when it comes to union people and a different set of rules for the executive ruling class.

We are told if we don't like it, we should quit.
But when the executive class say they don't like it, the company accommodates them.

 

[eolesen]

One has to wonder why some people who left AA some time ago for greener pastures continue to post here and preach the work of AA.

One also has to wonder why some people think that these forums are only for the employee's perspective, and not that of customers, management, or shareholders........

As a customer, I'd like to see AMR survive for the long term. AA usually offers a superior product, and I'm willing to pay a reasonable premium to get that level of service.

As someone who will derive part of their retirement income from an AMR pension, I'd also like to see AMR survive. Heck, who knows... after I turn 62, maybe I'll do the "come back for a week and retire" trick that's out there for employees who had enough years of service to qualify for retiree travel....

You'd think more employees would be interested in long term survival, but frankly, I'm not seeing that as much as I did ten years ago. Instead, it's all about short terrm gain and restitution.... Sadly, based on the past five years, the current management team doesn't appear to be any more interested in fixing the structural issues any more than the employees do.

Focusing on why someone posts here (as opposed to what they're saying) is really a wasted effort. But, too many of you guys seem to be all about focusing on minutae instead of the bigger issues which go untouched...

 

[Hopeful]

One also has to wonder why some people think that these forums are only for the employee's perspective, and not that of customers, management, or shareholders........



Focusing on why someone posts here (as opposed to what they're saying) is really a wasted effort. But, too many of you guys seem to be all about focusing on minutae instead of the bigger issues which go untouched...

I don't think anyone has ever insinuated this is an "employees' only forum.
This brings to mind "THE-MECHANIC.COM, a forum essentially for aircraft mechanics. The owner of that forum had is computer seized by authorities because his employer did not like what was being said on there.

The bottom line is that we could work for minimum wage and this management team will find something else to take away.
They made it perfectly clear they wish to give us ZERO..or whatever they do give us, they want concessions which are valued more.

I will continue to keep my bad morale at this company until I "punch out" for the last time.
That is my choice.


And pleased don't confuse my anger for "stress" or "obsession" or "salary envy".

I am quite happy with my life and family....However this company does make me want to vomit from time to time with their AArogance.

 

[Bob Owens]

As someone who will derive part of their retirement income from an AMR pension, I'd also like to see AMR survive. Heck, who knows... after I turn 62, maybe I'll do the "come back for a week and retire" trick that's out there for employees who had enough years of service to qualify for retiree travel....

You forget that those who do that never left the company, they were furloughed.

 

[eolesen]

You forget that those who do that never left the company, they were furloughed.

And how many of those are left in the TWU?... At least they have recall rights, unlike the FA's who didn't think to have that as part of their contract.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

eolesen you said it. The myopic obsession with clawing back the 2003 concessions in the short-term will be the undoing of everything if the militants have their way.

 

[Bob Owens]

And how many of those are left in the TWU?... At least they have recall rights, unlike the FA's who didn't think to have that as part of their contract.

There are quite a few, not in New York though, of the 298 they had in 2005 all but 16 or so have moved on and refused recall.

FFCA eolesen you said it. The myopic obsession with clawing back the 2003 concessions in the short-term will be the undoing of everything if the militants have their way.

Short term? Try 8 years of massive concessions. The airlines, and passengers expect that the guy who works on their plane is focused and well rested. Well how do you expect that to happen with wages that dont support a decent standard of living? AA is paying us a wage that is less today than it was eight years ago. Below is pretty much a typical budget for a topped out mechanic in his late 40s with a small twenty year old mortgage
Yearly net income2010 $37,542
Property Taxes $10,400
Mortgage $8,800
Home Insurance $1,800
Electric $2,160
Gas (Heat &HotWater $3,000
Auto Ins $2,000
Water $500
DMV $200
Phone, Internet,cable $2,000
Gas Auto(work only) $2,400
Auto Maint $1,200
Uniform Laundering $600*
$35060
That leaves $2482/year for food for a family, clothing, copays for medical, school supplies and other incidentals
.
*this is probably and understatement, the toxic and corrosive chemicals from our uniforms destroy our home machines, since we lost company laundering I'm on my third machine, the first machine was bought by the previous owner in 1978 and died in 2004.

AA has said they want to get a bigger piece of the New York market, which is bigger than Chicago and Dallas combined, well if they are serious about that, and they want and expect workers in New York to deliver a competitive product they better start coughing up enough money so we dont have to work someplace else just to put food on the table. Delta, their main competitor just gave their mechanics a raise. Under present conditions we would be better off to see AA lose the entire New York market, preferrably to SWA, this way we could opt to take the $12500 and move to a lower cost area or hope that carriers that pay their workers better, which is pretty much everyone, expand to fill the gap AA leaves and apply to work for them or simply leave the profession after collecting unemployment and letting the state pay for retraining.

 

[Hopeful]

eolesen you said it. The myopic obsession with clawing back the 2003 concessions in the short-term will be the undoing of everything if the militants have their way.

MILITANTS? There's a laugh. If militants existed at AA, believe me, you'd know it,


What a joke,,,Being called militants because we want something back that we had 7 years ago....

Don't worry FFCA, you're airfares will rise regardless of what we get or don't get.

 

[JAFA]

Yearly net income2010 $37,542
Property Taxes $10,400
Mortgage $8,800
Home Insurance $1,800
Electric $2,160
Gas (Heat &HotWater $3,000
Auto Ins $2,000
Water $500
DMV $200
Phone, Internet,cable $2,000
Gas Auto(work only) $2,400
Auto Maint $1,200
Uniform Laundering $600*
$35060
That leaves $2482/year for food for a family, clothing, copays for medical, school supplies and other incidentals

Sorry Bob, but I smell the distinct odor of exageration here.

First off your 2482 left over assumes a single income household, which let's face it is just not the norm in this city anymore, and probably hasn't been for decades.

10K in property taxes? Maybe for you personally (which I suspect is where this laundry list came from), but many of us are carrying 2/3 or even 1/2 that. In fact the townhome I just looked at this weekend has taxes of $6100. Coem to think of it 10K in property taxes on a house that is only carrying roughly a $135000 mortage seems a bit out of whack even for Nassau.

$200 for DMV? Is that for 1 car or 2? Or more? Not fair to include the wife's car if you're not including her income.

$600 for laudry? 5 uniforms/week = 1 load of laundry. Local laundromat @2.50 wash and 2.50 dry = $5/week x 52 weeks = $250 and I'll give you another $50 for detergent and fabric softener. I still come in at 1/2 your number.

So let's see, your 2482, my 3900 less in property taxes, and the missing 300 in laundry expenses and I have $6782 which is well over the $100 week on average I spend on food, clothing, entertainment, and incidentals. Oh yeah and I don't have a spouse that also works too so me thinks yuou've exagerated just a might. Just my humble opinion.