Are We Next?
- Thread starter AAquila
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Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
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- #47
Well, once or if aviation is over, I'm sure I'll find another career with the skills that my co-workers and I possess. More than likely, I'll still be here when the man comes to help you clean out your cube.Oneflyer said:
Thanks for the compliments. Pullin' together to win together. Mr. Arpey will be proud. :huh:
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
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Glad to see that y'all are paying attention and that someone actually knew about "pull together win together"....
Historically, oneflyer is correct about SWA and its unions. They've been a textbook example of cooperative management/labor relations for decades. Despite what happened with the TWU, I don't think that has changed when you look across all of the unions.
Why the TWU chose to play hardball was a combination of infighting within the flight attendant ranks more than anything else, plus the involvement of Jim Parker, who had a long history of negotiating contracts but probably should have stepped back from the talks when he was named CEO. Gary Kelly probably won't make the same mistake.
I'm sure AMFA will try to flex their muscle when the time comes, but the fact still remains that long-existing culture of cooperation at SWA didn't change just because the mechanic's union cards had a new logo on them.
Historically, oneflyer is correct about SWA and its unions. They've been a textbook example of cooperative management/labor relations for decades. Despite what happened with the TWU, I don't think that has changed when you look across all of the unions.
Why the TWU chose to play hardball was a combination of infighting within the flight attendant ranks more than anything else, plus the involvement of Jim Parker, who had a long history of negotiating contracts but probably should have stepped back from the talks when he was named CEO. Gary Kelly probably won't make the same mistake.
I'm sure AMFA will try to flex their muscle when the time comes, but the fact still remains that long-existing culture of cooperation at SWA didn't change just because the mechanic's union cards had a new logo on them.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
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Oh yes, we are very much paying attention. Now believing it is a whole different can of worms. I see a lot of people pulling, and only about 46 winning.Former ModerAAtor said:
Historically, SWA has not treated they're unions like a "cost", more like an "asset". As far as twu infighting at SWA, I'm sure there was. However, they were dealing with some hard ball management, who were using the present airline downturn as a stick while the company makes millions, and this is the reason good 'ol Herb stepped in.
AMFA won't flex its muscle unless ruthless companies try to gut them. Then I hope they put the brass knuckles on and have at it. Whats going on in the airline industry is nothing short of union busting with governments help. When large, greedy corporations start the "decent to third world living conditions", working people need to rise up and put and end to the greed. What ever it takes. CEO's getting $350k bonuses while the company stagnates in bankruptcy is nothing but BULLS**T.
There is an all out assault on the middle class, and we're getting real sick of it. :angry:
During the first quarter, AMR contributed $138 million to its various defined benefit plans:
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050420/daw019.html?.v=6
Even so, the unrestricted cash balance grew to over $3 billion.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050420/daw019.html?.v=6
Even so, the unrestricted cash balance grew to over $3 billion.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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Hackman said:
All pensions (including yours) is bankruptcy proof. The only thing that isn't bankruptcy proof for any pension is whether or not it can be frozen or distress terminated.
Even if it's terminated, you're not losing it. It just ceases to grow beyond what's already been credited/earned/accrued.
goingboeing
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2004
- 584
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You need to give the rest of us a set of them rose colored glasses so we can see things like you do.
What the hell do you call the major concessions that have taken place against unionized workers while the upper management keeps taking HUGE bonuses? [sometimes in the form of stock options]
What the hell do you call the major concessions that have taken place against unionized workers while the upper management keeps taking HUGE bonuses? [sometimes in the form of stock options]
fix_airplanes
Member
- Dec 1, 2002
- 68
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for: Former ModerAAtor;
Kind of wrong there. PBGC (the agency that will take over pensions if the going gets rough) published a "run out of money" timetable scenario acouple of months ago, using the various airlines pension plans debt.
Yes, the PBGC can run out of money and then they must go to Congress with hat in hand. And that is a political issue then. And currently Congress is no longer interesed in the plight of the legacy carriers financial woes.
Kind of wrong there. PBGC (the agency that will take over pensions if the going gets rough) published a "run out of money" timetable scenario acouple of months ago, using the various airlines pension plans debt.
Yes, the PBGC can run out of money and then they must go to Congress with hat in hand. And that is a political issue then. And currently Congress is no longer interesed in the plight of the legacy carriers financial woes.
eolesen
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- Jul 23, 2003
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fix_airplanes said:
There's also a "run out of money" scenario floating around with Social Security. The reality of either agency actually running out of money is probably quite remote.
Another big difference here is that even if the PBGC ran out of money, plans which aren't horribly underfunded would continue to pay out pretty much as promised.
The examples published were also using the level of underfunding that currently exists with the US and UA plans. AMR's plans could actually be fully funded by 2006, which is a combination of AMR continuing to fund the plans as well as rising interest rates.
fix_airplanes
Member
- Dec 1, 2002
- 68
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Mute point Former ModerAAtor;
Hot off the wires...below...the future.
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Pension help for US airlines proposed
Friday April 22, 2005
Legislation to give US airlines more time to make payments to underfunded employee pension plans was proposed by US Sens. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) and John Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) earlier this week. The Employee Pension Preservation Act of 2005 would allow carriers to spread their deferred pension funding obligations over 25 years instead of the current four years. In return, unions would have to agree to freeze their benefits at the current level. The bill also limits the liability of the US Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which may have to seek a federal bailout if more airlines terminate their pension plans in bankruptcy, as United Airlines has said it will do. In a statement, Air Line Pilots Assn. President Duane Woerth said the proposed legislation "comes not a minute too soon."
Hot off the wires...below...the future.
......................................................................
......................................
Pension help for US airlines proposed
Friday April 22, 2005
Legislation to give US airlines more time to make payments to underfunded employee pension plans was proposed by US Sens. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) and John Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) earlier this week. The Employee Pension Preservation Act of 2005 would allow carriers to spread their deferred pension funding obligations over 25 years instead of the current four years. In return, unions would have to agree to freeze their benefits at the current level. The bill also limits the liability of the US Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., which may have to seek a federal bailout if more airlines terminate their pension plans in bankruptcy, as United Airlines has said it will do. In a statement, Air Line Pilots Assn. President Duane Woerth said the proposed legislation "comes not a minute too soon."
Wretched Wrench
Veteran
- Apr 21, 2003
- 1,626
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fix_airplanes said:
Boy, you gotta love the names they give those bills.
Straight out of Orwell.
I was once told by a legislative assistant that the names were conjured to make them sound appealing so they would be approved without very many people reading them.
Wretched Wrench
Veteran
- Apr 21, 2003
- 1,626
- 12
Former ModerAAtor said:
Not so. Not even close.
If your pension is over the PBGC max for your age, you lose. Check their site for a clue. Do you know any US Air pilots?
Collectively, United’s pension plans are underfunded by $9.8 billion on a termination basis, $6.6 billion of which is guaranteed, according to the PBGC
If you are under a certain age, you get NOTHING if your plan is terminated.
And of course, if the PBGC becomes even more underfunded, there will be less or even no money to guarantee your pension, even partially. As of September 30, 2004, the PBGC’s own balance sheet showed a $23.3 billion deficit, with $39 billion in assets to pay $62.3 billion in guaranteed pension benefits to more than 1 million workers and retirees. By law, the PBGC is required to keep premiums as low as possible and has no call on the U.S. Treasury beyond a $100 million line of credit.
And, of course, the new act being pushed right now lets them guarantee you less, too.
