Arbitration

[John Gotti]

You sir are full of shite. The IAM did in fact state and even guaranteed it. It's in writing that there would be a vote.
Your a late bloomer to the party to distract and confuse. Not gonna work there chief, take a hike...

Post it then.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The Company and the Association have not negotiated the conclusion of Scope issues yet or else they wouldn’t have filed for Mediator assistance.

Arbitration could be a sticky proposition. Absolutely an Arbitrator would look at the Scope of the Competition and gauge his or her decision around those numbers. But an Arbitrator would also have to concur that the AA Profit Sharing Plan is dramatically sub par to UAL and DAL and the PS at UAL is in their Contracts.

you have to think 2-3 steps ahead. i already brought this up with the arbitrator.

if the assoc. gets the feeling that the mediator can't/won't sway the company towards reasonable scope/wages & benefits the assoc. desires, then we'll have no other choice.

to me, the company does not want this to go to arbitration, because they fear getting opened with a can opener in regards to profit sharing...the chance of the company losing hundreds of millions to it's 'team' members.

if we lose some scope in mediation, we won't gain profit sharing. we may lose more scope with an arbitrator (ua does it's RJs in hubs, so AMT will take a bigger hit than fleet and fleet may pick up shifts in hubs)...but $8k-$10k-$12k profit sharing checks may be enough not to care about that new hire who will never get hired.

dl does this: 10% of pre-tax up to $2.5 billion in profits, 20% above that go into the profit sharing kitty.

parker says; "even in a bad year, we'll earn $3 billion". ok, $3 billion. $250 million + $100 million = $350 million.

$350 million divided by 30,000 assoc members (no one will lose their job) is...?

aa didn't even have $300 million socked away in profit sharing for it's 120,000 employees. aa is potentially cutting off it's nose to spite it's face....adding $24 million for all to go on iam/lus is unacceptable, but a 3rd party arbitrator could force them to give us hundreds of millions in profit sharing.

 

[WeAAsles]

This JG guy that knows nothing of what has happened in the past needs to get a clue. He is sent here to one thing. Don't fall for it guys. And he does need to keep the personal's out of it.

“HE” was sent here? Who sent YOU?

Southwest Airlines Troll.

 

[SkydrolJunkie]

Fleet Troll.

 

[Kev3188]

Everything the association does will always looked upon with a certain amount of suspiciousness because of the way it took control.

You must be a IAM union guy who does a lot of “UB”. Go put on your sweatsuit grease back your hair jump in your Cadillac and go for ride and think about how tough you are.

Having a guy using John Gotti as an avatar defending the association is a perfect metaphor why the association is a bad idea, and why people think unions are nothing but corrupt.

+1

Interesting how someone that (I assume?) is pro labor would adopt/embrace an avatar of a mobster. Self hate much?

 

[2ndGENAMT]

“HE” was sent here? Who sent YOU?

Southwest Airlines Troll.

JG was sent here? By whom and for what?

 

[WeAAsles]

you have to think 2-3 steps ahead. i already brought this up with the arbitrator.

if the assoc. gets the feeling that the mediator can't/won't sway the company towards reasonable scope/wages & benefits the assoc. desires, then we'll have no other choice.

to me, the company does not want this to go to arbitration, because they fear getting opened with a can opener in regards to profit sharing...the chance of the company losing hundreds of millions to it's 'team' members.

if we lose some scope in mediation, we won't gain profit sharing. we may lose more scope with an arbitrator (ua does it's RJs in hubs, so AMT will take a bigger hit than fleet and fleet may pick up shifts in hubs)...but $8k-$10k-$12k profit sharing checks may be enough not to care about that new hire who will never get hired.

dl does this: 10% of pre-tax up to $2.5 billion in profits, 20% above that go into the profit sharing kitty.

parker says; "even in a bad year, we'll earn $3 billion". ok, $3 billion. $250 million + $100 million = $300 million.

$300 million divided by 30,000 assoc members (no one will lose their job) is...?

aa didn't even have $300 million socked away in profit sharing for it's 120,000 employees. aa is potentially cutting off it's nose to spite it's face....adding $24 million for all to go on iam/lus is unacceptable, but a 3rd party arbitrator could force them to give us hundreds of millions in profit sharing.

Thanks Crema. Trying to find an intellectual conversation on here now a days is like looking for an Oasis in the Sahara.

Here’s the other issue that needs to honestly be considered and talked about (without the garbage responses from trolls)

The Unions exist by having people employed. They gain their revenue through the Company’s paying us a decent/ good/ or great wage. But it’s also a numbers game and they need more numbers to keep the revenue stream flowing smoothly.

Your hypothesis while I obviously agree with doesn’t assist the Union in stabilizing or even growing their revenue. Profit Sharing is a form of deferred compensation that the Unions can’t benefit from. We “might” but they can’t.

Unlike most other posters who need to rehash ad nauseam, I don’t need to express my opinion to you on PS over direct wages. I think I’ve covered that quite thoroughly.

 

[WeAAsles]

JG was sent here? By whom and for what?

If you’ve ever noticed any time someone is pro TWU or IAM or any other Union for that matter they get labeled as “Someone” must have sent them. It’s a way to minimize the poster and his conversation and opinions and IMO has contributed to the death of Forums from what it once was.

Us one dozen max posters here are not important enough for anyone to be “sent” here to try and convince anyone else off whatever it is they believe.

But in case you didn’t notice. It was the guy “admittedly” who works for another Airline (Our Competition) who made the accusation that JG was “sent” here?

So I ask “Who sent him”?

 

[WeAAsles]

Fleet Troll.

Do you work for American Airlines?

 

[2ndGENAMT]

“HE” was sent here? Who sent YOU?

Southwest Airlines Troll.

If you’ve ever noticed any time someone is pro TWU or IAM or any other Union for that matter they get labeled as “Someone” must have sent them. It’s a way to minimize the poster and his conversation and opinions and IMO has contributed to the death of Forums from what it once was.

Us one dozen max posters here are not important enough for anyone to be “sent” here to try and convince anyone else off whatever it is they believe.

But in case you didn’t notice. It was the guy “admittedly” who works for another Airline (Our Competition) who made the accusation that JG was “sent” here?

So I ask “Who sent him”?

Okay I get it now, I missed your question mark at "He was sent here".

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Thanks Crema. Trying to find an intellectual conversation on here now a days is like looking for an Oasis in the Sahara.

Here’s the other issue that needs to honestly be considered and talked about (without the garbage responses from trolls)

The Unions exist by having people employed. They gain their revenue through the Company’s paying us a decent/ good/ or great wage. But it’s also a numbers game and they need more numbers to keep the revenue stream flowing smoothly.

Your hypothesis while I obviously agree with doesn’t assist the Union in stabilizing or even growing their revenue. Profit Sharing is a form of deferred compensation that the Unions can’t benefit from. We “might” but they can’t.

Unlike most other posters who need to rehash ad nauseam, I don’t need to express my opinion to you on PS over direct wages. I think I’ve covered that quite thoroughly.

i understand your point and had posted that i felt the company had to acknowledge this while negotiating with the assoc. no union can negotiate it's future death.

obviously, the company is not sympathetic in any way, shape or form.

as mentioned, there is no guarantee of big profit sharing payouts AND there is no guarantee fleet would do RJs in hubs. if it does end up that way, aa would need hundreds of FSCs just in ord to work the RJs. more dues there.

my suggestion won't be popular. 3% of profit sharing checks go to the intls., let some of that money trickle down to the locals.

it's not like aa will never hire an AMT again or FSC or workers for GSE/Facility M.

 

[WeAAsles]

i understand your point and had posted that i felt the company had to acknowledge this while negotiating with the assoc. no union can negotiate it's future death.

obviously, the company is not sympathetic in any way, shape or form.

as mentioned, there is no guarantee of big profit sharing payouts AND there is no guarantee fleet would do RJs in hubs. if it does end up that way, aa would need hundreds of FSCs just in ord to work the RJs. more dues there.

my suggestion won't be popular. 3% of profit sharing checks go to the intls., let some of that money trickle down to the locals.

it's not like aa will never hire an AMT again or FSC or workers for GSE/Facility M.

Lol. I don’t think even if they wanted to put their hands on that money they legally could? And could you even begin to imagine the uproar from the Membership.

I have to admit that if they did try to arbitrarily add an additional revenue stream from my pocket I’d have to join the chorus of those looking to stone them to death.

Some Union Reps “honestly” do have too many perks already.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

the alternative is raising union dues. i understand the concept...the company wants to slowly strangle them to death, financially. this is the corporatist road map, clearly laid out by the laws ghost-written by corporate america.

to me, the issue is: we can't get more from an unyielding company in mediation. we can potentially get a lot more from an arbitrator - including RJ work in hubs.

one way or the other, we will lose jobs. if so, we're better off with an arbitrator.

 

[WeAAsles]

the alternative is raising union dues. i understand the concept...the company wants to slowly strangle them to death, financially. this is the corporatist road map, clearly laid out by the laws ghost-written by corporate america.

to me, the issue is: we can't get more from an unyielding company in mediation. we can potentially get a lot more from an arbitrator - including RJ work in hubs.

one way or the other, we will lose jobs. if so, we're better off with an arbitrator.

Ok but don’t forget if you go with an Arbitrator we’re likely to get stuck with the industry aggregate which sure could put Profit Sharing into Contractual language and expanded to match the competition but we could also lose wages particularly any percentages above like the 3% offered or the 7% I’d be comfortable with?

On the Maintenance side you could be talking pure devastation particularly in OH and even more so Facilities and Automotive?

Would there also still be an agreement in place that no one loses their jobs? Of course that piece would have to be part of any deal to go with an Arbitrator anyway.

I don’t honestly see either party wanting to go that route anyway Crema.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I don’t honestly see either party wanting to go that route anyway Crema.

yup, i agree.

your arguments against...we're not getting dl or ua +7% anyways on DOS and ua will see to it that we'll still be $34.50-$35ish/hr TOS.

we will have to keep more scope, otherwise, mediation will be a comprehensive victory for the company. this is why i said i'm not afraid of arbitration and it's potential of getting us more than mediation.

ua's profit sharing parameters aren't too far behind dl's...their problem was generating profits in the area of a dl or even aa to give back to it's employees.