April/May 2013 Pilot Discussion

[nycbusdriver]

How "noble in reason". What you're actually demanding is the ability to contemptuously usurp as much as 17 worked years of other people's lives...and all purely for your own selfish gains. You're cordially invited to layer on as many more tons of pure and unadulterated BS as you can manage, although topping the levels already demonstrated for the past six years would truly represent an Herculean endeavor.

Actually, the Fifth Labor of Hercules...without the rivers!

 

[EastUS1]

Actually, the Fifth Labor of Hercules...without the rivers!

I'd figured the mere hint was sufficient, for the even semi-educated among them. No point in going all Aegean on 'em....Too many "spartans" might drown!

 

[CallawayGolf]

I've made but one agreement/personal promise anywhere, and at any point in time with this mess here. I will never vote in favor of anything containing the nic. Good luck with your BS shoveling, as the only people who'll ever be truly impressed by it are your fellow...umm.."spartans" in your little "army", and there's no present need to do anything other than laugh at the lot of you.

Oh, so you, personally of course, didn't agree to combine the two seniority lists by following the process agreed to by all parties in the collective bargaining agreement known as the Transition Agreement, so you personally have no personal moral misgivings about abrogating the same? So we can add a complete lack of understanding of what it means to be represented by an "agent" as well as a complete lack of understanding of the term "seniority" to your list of things that you speak on without true comprehension? There certainly is laughter going on, that much we agree on.

 

[end_of_alpa]

You can cite all the cases you want.
Federal law is where those cases come from. Fair and equitable is the standard for M/B.




I don't see anything about time served even mentioned. Fair and equitable is the standard, nothing to do with time.

As you so bring up the law, let me remind you that:

"Congress MAKES the law" (statutory, like M/B)
"Administration ENFORCES the law
"THE SUPREME COURT " INTERPRETES THE LAW.

Arbitators must STILL comply with the Duty of FAIR REPRESENTAION just like the union. Arbitrators cannot defy the "arbitrary, discriminatory or bad faith" elements JUST LIKE THE UNION.

 

[EastUS1]

Oh, so you, personally of course, didn't agree to combine the two seniority lists by following the process agreed to by all parties in the collective bargaining agreement known as the Transition Agreement, so you personally have no personal moral misgivings about abrogating the same?

Correct!!! By George; I think s/he's got it! "There certainly is laughter going on, that much we agree on. " Rejoice in even your smallest triumphs, as that's evidently the only thing we can agree on here.

https://www.youtube....h?v=uVmU3iANbgk

 

[Claxon]

It cannot be forced upon someone by that wording, but parties agree to things all the time. In NC there are strict guidelines on child support, but when when I divorced my ex and I agreed to terms that were more generous for her. Should I be worried that we "broke the law?"

It's not using the law, it's saying that we agree the process will work for us so we will use the same thing. It's really like the current ALPA merger policy-negotiate and then if no success, arbitrate before a party of 3.

If you guys didn't like that, you should have voted against it. If you had the MOU would have failed.

Captain Gay is trying to lecture you. Too bad he is an amateur in RLA law. The Wilders will eat Marty alive when he tries to go where he has no business.
Scott Kirby handled him effectively. "NO"

 

[Claxon]

Separate until a combined list. It never happened because you followed the advice of angry f/o' running the army of lyingitas.

Cry me a Wye River, plus many other chances "youse" guys had to discuss this.

Enjoy your stagnant thoughts and operation in PHX

 

[Phoenix]

.....
The language is very clear. This SHALL NOT apply. It does not say it may not or might not apply. It does not say if the parties agree you can ignore it.

You are correct. Congress wrote that their law would not apply and thus acknowledged that they did not make it retroactive.

If you were right post the exception to the law where by agreement the law can be ignored.

If you think that congress intended to deny anyone the freedom to choose to use MB of their own free will then you are just nucking futts.

But at any rate, even if your idea is true, it doesn't matter in the least because if you read the MOU more CLEARLY, you will notice that no one agreed to use the MB process per se ... yeah go back and read the MOU more clearly. NO ONE AGREED TO USE THE MB PROCESS per se.

10. a. A seniority integration process consistent with McCaskill-Bond shall begin as soon as possible after the Effective Date.

f. A Seniority Integration Protocol Agreement ("Protocol Agreement") consistent with
McCaskill-Bond and this Paragraph 10 will be agreed upon within 30 days of the Effective Date.

We all agreed, by vote, to invent one that is consistent with it. Show us where Congress wrote that we the free people of the U.S. can't invent a process consistent with theirs! Did they claim copyright?

 

[prechilill]

As opposed to those who refuse to abide by the terms of their contractual agreements or to accept the results of final and binding arbitration?

How exactly does an expectation that all parties in a contract honor their agreements demonstrate a complete lack of respect for other people? Seems to me that living up to one's agreement, even to one's own detriment, is paramount to showing respect to others.

Situational ethics- it's what Greeter Joe lives by

 

[prechilill]

T-13 days. The company is arguing ripeness, a departure from Addington 1. The UCC, AMR and Judge Lane all believe the case is ripe. Only the scraggly haired angry FO union hopes they can squeak by again on ripeness- they've lost already on the merits and it won't be any different this time around. So the scraggly haired onion is all- in with their ripeness hopes, fingers crossed, all knowing they are trapped like a cornered rat.
Once ripeness is asserted by Judge Silver the justice process will evaluate USAPA's dangerous decision of messing with a completed arbitration. Placing one of their furloughees above a captain is a very steep hill for the scraggly hair onion to climb and certainly places them on dangerous ground. They've been warned repeatedly but seem to be intent to press forward. This is not surprising given the evidence presented in Addington 1 (which will be imported for expediency in Addington2), specifically with the smoking gun letter the chief scraggly haired fo Bradford himself admitted the sole purpose of usapa was to attempt to undo the completed SLI between east and west.
The scraggly haired onion is boxed in- the company is now prepared to move forward and has decidedly supported the ripeness argument. With our contract in place at POR and as Kirby has acknowledged recently, there will be no east and west. The company has accepted a list and it is not a DOH list. We learned through Document 49 the company is not interested in discussions for a new list either.
Closure will be swift and quick.
330 in 2015

 

[EastUS1]

cleardirect, on 01 May 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I don't see anything about time served even mentioned.....nothing to do with time.

Situational ethics- it's what Greeter Joe lives by

Situational ethics? Not hardly. It's never unreasonable to respect the worked years of others...although respect for others seems nowhere to be found with you, and you're just seeking personal gain at the expense of people who've, unlike yourself, actually earned their positions. In full fairness here though; you would first need some, or even ANY actual ethics to understand that. Hint: "It's ALL about MEEEE!" doesn't truly constitue any code of ethics whatsoever.

Your sick sort of insanely selfish BS's been previously addressed in any case: Infantile and narcicisstic greed, paired with delusionally inflated notions of excessive self-worth, can best attempt to be "justified" only by those most afflicted with such.

"Closure will be swift and quick. "...? Sure thing...and we all know that as far back as December of 2007 that "Ho ho ho! St. Nic is" (or was) "coming to town!"...At least according to you. How's that been working out for you?

https://www.youtube....h?v=kRW7pITY5Cg

 

[prechilill]

A delta pilot's perspective:


"Not my fight- I'm a deltoid. Your post was rather illogical, though. Half the combined US East/West list will be gone in about 5 years.

I do believe that once the JCBA comes into place the nicolau award will be implemented. East and West will cease to exist under that, and there has only been one legally defined seniority list for the US types."

 

[Bill Brasky]

A delta pilot's perspective:


"Not my fight- I'm a deltoid. Your post was rather illogical, though. Half the combined US East/West list will be gone in about 5 years.

I do believe that once the JCBA comes into place the nicolau award will be implemented. East and West will cease to exist under that, and there has only been one legally defined seniority list for the US types."

So you've proven that deltoids can be wrong too.

You're smack down is coming. Less than 2 weeks and this will be all over. The Nic will finally be buried.

 

[EastUS1]

A delta pilot's perspective:


"Not my fight- I'm a deltoid. Your post was rather illogical, though. Half the combined US East/West list will be gone in about 5 years.

I do believe that once the JCBA comes into place the nicolau award will be implemented. East and West will cease to exist under that, and there has only been one legally defined seniority list for the US types."

If you've some strange desire to desperately cherry-pick posts to inflate or even just sustain your fantasies; here's a more pertinent one, being it's apparently from an American pilot:

"No chance bud.. What this latest AOL tactic does is effectively alienates the west boys from the perceived harmony expected by the UCC via the now ratified MOU. I would bet my bacon that a contingency plan is baked into this merger process. Remember the Co. is not required to surrender the US Airways certificate. The contractual language in the MOU is murky enough to allow the Co. wiggle room in case this sort of thing occurs. Most annalists are already predicting a substantially reduced PHX hub.
I for one am glad that this fiasco is fast approaching maturity. Wish I could say the same about Cacti....;-) When the gavel drops, the nic will finally be put to rest..
I have spoken to several other AA pilots, and THEY are not happy with the nic..."

 

[Zone5]

A delta pilot's perspective:


"Not my fight- I'm a deltoid. Your post was rather illogical, though. Half the combined US East/West list will be gone in about 5 years.

I do believe that once the JCBA comes into place the nicolau award will be implemented. East and West will cease to exist under that, and there has only been one legally defined seniority list for the US types."

OK, I give up! How can USAPA possibly prevail in the face of a Delta pilots' dissenting opinion! All is lost, oh the horror, the inhumanity.

The 330 by 2015?, perhaps. Being a "youngster", you may even get to fly some F/O trips instead of IRO, oh and enjoy the reserve commute!


seajay