Any News On The Oct 12 Hearing?

[BoeingBoy]

"If I were GE, or RSA, or PIT airport, or some other creditor, I'd be in the "off with their heads" category."

Except for RSA, I agree. I wonder if RSA is hoping to get a bigger gain on their investment (what is their stock worth today?) than their loan (which I believe is unsecured since they are a tranche B lender).

Interestingly, the ATSB only has 13 or 18 planes as collateral (I forget which). Most of their collateral is in the cash, slots, and gate leases. In a liquidation how much would the non-cash assets bring? I certainly don't know, but suspect that it would be less than some "max" based on past sales of a few slots or transfer of the lease on a gate or two.

So far I haven't seen any "run on the bank" by creditors. The closest is the trustees for the holders of the EETC's on about 1/3 of the fleet (I haven't looked but that may be about all the owned planes). They want money set aside to protect against a decrease in the value of the planes due to continued use (cycles and hours). The hearing on that is the middle of next month. Should be interesting....

Jim

 

[jimntx]

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that Liquidation should occur when we get to some smaller asset base, and distribute those lesser assets to the creditors, vs. more if we just shut down today? From a creditor perspective, that doesn't seem rational.

I agree with you, that we are not at Liquidation yet.

[snip]
If I were a creditor, I'd be calling for Ch 7 already, because the economics of the situation dictate it (both macro and micro).

[post="190525"][/post]​

Maybe I worded it badly. I meant to say that if the diminution of cash assets could be slowed or stopped before the asset base gets much smaller, then the airline at least has a chance. However, at the current rate of cash burn and with the alleged steep reduction in bookings, there isn't much time to "right the ship." It's hauled way over to starboard at this point.

The creditors obviously still feel somewhat comfortable that they will get their money regardless of the outcome. Those slots at LGA and DCA are worth a lot on the auction market, and there are always airlines wanting to pick up some a/c for less than the brand-new cost. Though at this point, I would not rule out some election year political pressure being exerted through the ATSB.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Last night a lawyer representing the ATSB at Tuesday's bankruptcy hearing flew from DCA to LGA and sat next to a colleague of mine. The attorney said the ATSB believes the cuts are necessary, the court will approve the company's motion, and the ATSB believes US Airways will be successful implementing the new business plan.

Maybe that's why the government and the creditor's continue to work with the airline.

Regards,

USA320pilot

 

[700UW]

Can you ask him what the next PowerBall Numbers will be?

Who will win the next Kentucky Derby?

What team will win the World Serier?

What team will win the Super Bowl?

 

[CapnCockroach]

Can you ask him what the next PowerBall Numbers will be?

Who will win the next Kentucky Derby?

What team will win the World Serier?

What team will win the Super Bowl?

[post="190640"][/post]​

Maybe you can tell us about the "devastating" questioning to be undertaken by IAM layers...uh...lawyers? We are all still waiting for your report - after all you were there - and you know the truth. Or were you trying to be...well, let's not go there.

 

[BoeingBoy]

"The attorney said the ATSB believes the cuts are necessary, the court will approve the company's motion, and the ATSB believes US Airways will be successful implementing the new business plan."

Probably similiar to what this attorney (or one like him/her) would have said in early 2003 on the subject of the pilot's DB plan termination.

Worked out really well then, didn't it?

Jim

 

[bluetoad]

"Last night a lawyer representing the ATSB at Tuesday's bankruptcy hearing flew from DCA to LGA and sat next to a colleague of mine. The attorney said the ATSB believes the cuts are necessary, the court will approve the company's motion, and the ATSB believes US Airways will be successful implementing the new business plan."

You have said this twice now. Why would a lawyer in an ongoing case discuss it with a colleague of yours? I am assuming that the colleague is another pilot. I might be wrong but the lawyers I know do not shoot off there opinions to strangers on an airplane. Maybe the lawyer was trying to seem like he knows more than he really does.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

OR, perhaps a pilot is trying to seem to know more than he really does.....

 

[700UW]

I was there, and the IAM presented their case and did a very good job at it.

They brought out the managment raises, the lack of management cuts, differant ways to accomplish the airbus work inhouse. Differences in the ask from the IAM vs ALPA and AFA.

CEO Compensation.

I can post for days, I have ten pages of notes from the hearing.

 

[usfliboi]

or pilot envy???????????? Come on dont u have something more constructive to say that to kick someone just because they have information or an opinion?

 

[700UW]

It is called Hearsay.

Not information or opinion.

Hearsay: evidence based not on a witness's personal knowledge but on another's statement not made under oath

 

[seeking the truth]

The attorney said the ATSB believes the cuts are necessary, the court will approve the company's motion, and the ATSB believes US Airways will be successful implementing the new business plan.

Maybe that's why the government and the creditor's continue to work with the airline.

Regards,

USA320pilot

[post="190597"][/post]​

seeking the truth replies: usa320pilot isn't this the same ATSB that approved the government loan, based on a solid plan presented to them , after emergence the last time. Doesn't that make you wonder ???

 

[USA320Pilot]

Seeking:

No, not at all because the fundamentals have changed. Explosive LCC growth with capital market support, more internet booking, increased security costs, and energy prices have caused the business plan problem. The new labor standard is being established by the LCC’s and either US Airways and its union’s adapt, either via imposition or consensual new labor accords, or the airline will likely fail.

However, with labor contract imposition and new ATSB agreement expected in short order, the cuts and continued government backed financing could be approved by the court no later than Friday. I suspect these developments, plus ALPA TA ratification next Friday, will put significant pressure on the AFA, IAM, and CWA to obtain new labor deals.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Walmartgreeter]

I suspect these developments, plus ALPA TA ratification next Friday, will put significant pressure on the AFA, IAM, and CWA to obtain new labor deals.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

[post="190666"][/post]​

Actually, the approval of the TA will do two things...the first is to show how NOT to negociate as a union, the second....will tell the other groups they can give a little less, since the pilots are willing to make up the majority of givebacks, and can be counted on a year from now to do it again! No pressure there for the other unions...only relief! Greeter.

 

[ClueByFour]

The attorney said the ATSB believes the cuts are necessary, the court will approve the company's motion, and the ATSB believes US Airways will be successful implementing the new business plan.

[post="190597"][/post]​

Keeping in mind they thought so the last time, as well (and here we are).

I'm betting that after November 2, the ATSB's faith in the latest restructuring takes a nosedive.