AMR Faces Union Stalemate in Bid for $800 Million Labor Savings

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When did the airlines have "an easy go at it"? I've been in it for over 30 years and I've never seen orders for 500 airplanes or the amount of revenues or cash on hand like we see now. I've never seen such free spending before.

For most of your 30 years in the industry, fuel expenses consumed less than 10% of airline revenue. In recent years, fuel has jumped to as high as 35% of revenue, which is where it will end up in 2011 unless the price of refined products declines sharply in the fourth quarter. Arpey, Horton and the Board are gambling that fuel costs stay at 25% to 35% of revenue for the long-term and if they do, an order for hundreds of fuel efficient planes makes perfect sense, since the fuel savings and maintenance savings will make the payments on those new planes.

Sure they have the money, to buy new airplanes, to build new terminals, to buy pajamas and add entertainment systems, they even have money to buy plastic tops for the baggage carts, buy flat screen TVs for the ready rooms and do nice landscaping in front of the hangars, sponsor stadiums ,now they are buying all of Eagles assetts and losing $300 million right off the bat, need a few million to save the spotted owl? No problem, go ask AMR, the only charity they will turn down is one that benefits their employees, in fact they have money for every and anything, except for the employees.

Sure, management is investing small sums in hopes that those investments help AA compete with other airlines that are also improving the customer experience. The trivial sums spent on improving the ready rooms and the landscaping? Wouldn't pay for a tenth of a percent raise for the employees. It's small potatoes. The $300 million you mentioned above has been debunked in other threads.

Has AA's revenue per employee ever exceeded what it is now? They are set to bring in $24 billion this year, they should be singing "Happy Days are here again". Maybe they are, because they sure are spending like they dont have a care in the world. Every time you turn around you see AMR either buying something or sponsoring something. The last basketball championship had two teams from AA sponsored stadiums playing in it. Was there a corresponding increase in customers that exceeded their rivals? Its not like AA needs to get their name out there, everybody knows who they are.

Your revenue estimates are very optimistic, probably to the tune of a billion dollars of unwarranted optimism. For the first six months, total revenues were just $11.65 billion, and there's no indication that AA will bring in more than that for the second half of the year. My prediction is total revenue of $23 billion for full-year 2011, not your optimisitc $24 billion. AMR will spend about $8 billion on fuel and about $7 billion on labor. Right there is $15 billion of the $23 billion in likely revenue. All other operating expenses including rent, landing fees, credit card discounts and commissions, depreciation and amortization, repairs and maintenance, catering expense and other expenses will total about $9 billion more, leading to a loss of about $1.0 billion. On top of that billion dollar operating loss, the interest on the debt will total at least another $800 million, for a full year net loss of $1.8 billion.

Happy Days are Here Again? A net loss of $5 million a day ain't good times.

About that depreciation and amortization expense that you usually deride as accounting voodoo - it doesn't represent cash spent in 2001 but it represents cash spent in prior years. $8 billion spent on fuel this year contributes to this year's net profit or loss as all is written off in the year it's used up. $3 billion spent on airplanes is written off over 30 years because the airplanes aren't used up in the first year, so each year AMR would write off $100 million of that $3 billion and do the same for 30 years. That doesn't make this year's depcreciation/amortization expense illegitimate - it just means that AA's cash balance didn't absorb that depreciation expense this year - as the cash was spent in prior years.

The primary problem? For years, airlines spent about 10% (or less) of their revenues on fuel. That percentage began to climb substantially about 10 years ago. Now that fuel costs consume more than a third of revenue, other line items have to be adjusted in order to pay for the fuel, and unfortunately for you and your colleagues, labor costs were an easy target in 2003.

Why not just increase ticket prices? Despite numerous well-publicized "fare hikes" this year and every other year, airlines have struggled to increase yields above their levels of 1999-2000. Airlines have closed some of the gap by increasing load factors and filling more seats (although sometimes with junk fares) and they have increased unit revenue some. Still, the average mainline yields need to be more like $0.18 or $0.20 per passenger mile but $0.14 or $0.15 seems to be as high as AA, DL, UA and US can increase them. People simply won't pay double the 1999-2000 fares to fly now.

About fuel again - I realize that gas prices have spiked and that's caused plenty of pain for families. But gas wasn't costing you 10% of your family's income in 1999 nor is it costing you 35% of your family income in 2011. Unfortunately, though, that's the airline reality - fuel now takes 35% of this year's revenue. Crude prices have collapesd but refined product prices have stayed at about $3/gal for jetA. In 1998 and 1999, AMR spent an average of $0.55/gal for fuel, and this year it will be about $3/gal. For nearly 2.7 billion gallons. This year's fuel bill at AMR will be about $6.5 billion higher than in 1999. Even if nothing else got more expensive, that means that revenue needs to be $6.5 billion higher than in 1999. And it won't be. You have been focused on comparing today's revenue to the dark days of 2002-03 when AMR was bleeding billions. Instead, compare the numbers to 1999 when AMR was moderately profitable and paying out profit sharing. Revenues simply haven't increased enough over 1999 levels to pay the fuel bill, the interest expense and all the other costs. Increasing employee expenses now? Lunacy.

Decent revenue per employee? Sure. Fuel costs per employee? Never, in the history of airlines, have fuel costs per employee been higher.
 
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Delta has also announced a reduction in capacity. WN has stated they have no plans to grow capacity in 2012. Are they in on conspiracy also? Or, could this just be the reduction in available seats we see every friggin' year about this time. 4th Quarter is a slow time except around the holidays.

Yes, but AA's reductions are a sign of management failure and other airlines' slowing of growth or shrinkage is a sign of superior management at those other airlines. :D
 
since capacity is expressed on a year over year basis, it means that there are less seats flying this year than last.
It also says that removing capacity is dictated by the marketplace - a whole lot of transatlantic flying doesn't make economic sense in the winter when fares drop very low and it is very difficult to fill seats for 2-3 months during the dead of winter.
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No, it says that reducing capacity is the right thing to do - and those who are willing to do so will reduce their losses.
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If the service can be brought back in the spring and if the carrier is able to keep passengers on its network throughout the year, there is little risk in reducing capacity.
 
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AA could play bankruptcy card to break labor cost logjam:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/09/21/amr-could-play-bankruptcy-card-to-break-labor-logjam/?partner=yahootix
 
AA could play bankruptcy card to break labor cost logjam:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2011/09/21/amr-could-play-bankruptcy-card-to-break-labor-logjam/?partner=yahootix


AA should go ahead make the though decisions that are needed to turn this company around.
 
Heck, I'll hold the court's doors open for AA. Either file or don't file. Threats do not scare me any more.

It doesn't scare me or bother me anymore! I've now lived with concessions for 8 years and adjusted my lifestyle accordingly, so what's another 9, 14 or 19 years of court imposed concessions gonna change??? btw, those magic numbers represent 55, 60 & 65......after that AA & the TWU can go to hell!!! Matter of fact, they can go to hell, today!!!
 
Don't the execs have a fund in place that pays their bonuses even in bankruptcy?
 
Nope. You may have that confused with the trust to cover executive pensions above the PBGC guaranteed amount.
 
Don't the execs have a fund in place that pays their bonuses even in bankruptcy?
Yes. It's called your bank account. They will keep taking money out of our accounts :angry: :angry: , as long as we continue to let them do it, and putting it in theirs!!!
 
Sure they have the money, to buy new airplanes, to build new terminals, to buy pajamas and add entertainment systems, they even have money to buy plastic tops for the baggage carts, buy flat screen TVs for the ready rooms and do nice landscaping in front of the hangars, sponsor stadiums ,now they are buying all of Eagles assetts and losing $300 million right off the bat, need a few million to save the spotted owl? No problem, go ask AMR, the only charity they will turn down is one that benefits their employees, in fact they have money for every and anything, except for the employees.

AMR is committing capital resources to buying and/or leasing new airplanes because they are NPV positive nearly immediately - i.e., their positive cash flow contribution (or reduction in cash out flow) covers its cost of money almost from day one. That's a good thing - for the company and employees.

You continually restate the whole thing about airport terminals, but in the last decade, the biggest terminal projects I can think of that AA has spent money on were pretty much all (with the exception of BOS) in major AA stations in need of more facilities and infrastructure to accommodate growth. LAX is a larger station today than it was ten years ago. MIA is way, way bigger (in fact, AA's massive new terminal there is probably not large enough). JFK I hear - that terminal is larger than AA's present slot portfolio requires, and relinquishing the JFK presence was a strategic blunder, but there still, AA actually is a bit bigger - net-net - than it was when that terminal project started. More money is being spent at much smaller levels in other hubs or major stations, I suppose. But what is your complaint with airport terminals really about? The three big 'cornerstones' with new and/or upgraded terminal in the last decade (LAX, JFK and MIA) were all desperately in need of expanded and improved facilities - the old ones were sub-par (for passengers and employees).

Pajamas and entertainment systems? Would you rather AA not invest in its product and become less and less competitive against other carriers? Didn't the flight attendants flip out (for good reason) when FS gave them powdered milk for First? You're wrong about AMR - it isn't a charity. The money has to come from somewhere - i.e, passengers. And if AA doesn't keep its product competitive, passengers won't buy AA tickets.

Has AA's revenue per employee ever exceeded what it is now? They are set to bring in $24 billion this year, they should be singing "Happy Days are here again". Maybe they are, because they sure are spending like they dont have a care in the world. Every time you turn around you see AMR either buying something or sponsoring something. The last basketball championship had two teams from AA sponsored stadiums playing in it. Was there a corresponding increase in customers that exceeded their rivals? Its not like AA needs to get their name out there, everybody knows who they are.

Some might argue that while AA's revenue (unadjusted for inflation) per FTE has not exceeded its present level at any point since 1995, the real challenge is that AA still generates substantially less per FTE than any other legacy airline, and just about any other major airline in the U.S. In 2010, AA generated about $338K per FTE, whereas the average among legacy carriers was $388K, and among all major U.S. carriers was $379K. So it appears that the strategy just about every other U.S. carrier has followed in the last few years was either, for the new entrants, to start out with as few employees as possible, and/or for legacies, to use bankruptcy and other means to shed as many FTEs as possible and try and move towards the legacy carriers' labor productivity.

The fact is that we see airlines building bigger, more lavish terminals than ever before. Years ago, under the CAB they would have an easier time justifying it, but now with internet booking and cheap airfares and very high load factors why bother? Want to talk about successful business models? Show me a carrier that offers tons of amenities that never lost money.

Low-fare, new entrant carriers are also building expensive terminals. In the last decade, Southwest has largely or fully financed the building of brand new or dramatically refurbished terminals in BWI, HOU and MDW; JetBlue built a huge and very impressive terminal at JFK, etc. And, in general, many low-fare airlines haven't spent as much on airport terminals to a certain extent because they are newer, younger airlines that don't have the legacy airport facilities that legacy airlines have to contend with. Frontier's terminal at Denver is as old as the airport - basically 15 years. AirTran's ATL hub terminal is old, but still not as old as AA's old terminals at LAX or JFK, and not nearly as bad as AA's old terminals at MIA - the same is true of many other legacy airlines' old/aged terminals.
 
AMR is committing capital resources to buying and/or leasing new airplanes because they are NPV positive nearly immediately - i.e., their positive cash flow contribution (or reduction in cash out flow) covers its cost of money almost from day one. That's a good thing - for the company and employees.
Not really,are you claiming the the Institutions that are buying these aircraft arent going to collect a lot more over the term than they are paying? The idea of AA buying a plane then selling it for an up front advance to the lease company sounds like a scam that will cost AA more over the long term than either just buying or leasing it without all the paper shuffling.


You continually restate the whole thing about airport terminals, but in the last decade, the biggest terminal projects I can think of that AA has spent money on were pretty much all (with the exception of BOS) in major AA stations in need of more facilities and infrastructure to accommodate growth. LAX is a larger station today than it was ten years ago. MIA is way, way bigger (in fact, AA's massive new terminal there is probably not large enough). JFK I hear - that terminal is larger than AA's present slot portfolio requires, and relinquishing the JFK presence was a strategic blunder, but there still, AA actually is a bit bigger - net-net - than it was when that terminal project started. More money is being spent at much smaller levels in other hubs or major stations, I suppose. But what is your complaint with airport terminals really about? The three big 'cornerstones' with new and/or upgraded terminal in the last decade (LAX, JFK and MIA) were all desperately in need of expanded and improved facilities - the old ones were sub-par (for passengers and employees).

The compliant is that AA is claiming they cant restore what they took away, in the meantime they have money for every, and any, thing else. JFK was fine the way it was, in fact they had only done a major refurbishing a few years prior to tearing it down, more wasted money, in the end we had less gates than we had before. So they spent billions and ended up with fewer gates.

Pajamas and entertainment systems? Would you rather AA not invest in its product and become less and less competitive against other carriers?

How are pajamas Investments? How is putting entertainment systems in airplanes that going to the desert a good investment. "Investment" is simply a smokescreen to justify excessive and wasteful spending.

Didn't the flight attendants flip out (for good reason) when FS gave them powdered milk for First? You're wrong about AMR - it isn't a charity. The money has to come from somewhere - i.e, passengers. And if AA doesn't keep its product competitive, passengers won't buy AA tickets.

Really? Where will they go when the system is running 80% load factors? Does Southwest give away Pajamas and have entertainment systems? Like I said most people have their own PEDs.


Some might argue that while AA's revenue (unadjusted for inflation) per FTE has not exceeded its present level at any point since 1995, the real challenge is that AA still generates substantially less per FTE than any other legacy airline, and just about any other major airline in the U.S. In 2010, AA generated about $338K per FTE, whereas the average among legacy carriers was $388K, and among all major U.S. carriers was $379K. So it appears that the strategy just about every other U.S. carrier has followed in the last few years was either, for the new entrants, to start out with as few employees as possible, and/or for legacies, to use bankruptcy and other means to shed as many FTEs as possible and try and move towards the legacy carriers' labor productivity.

Other Legacy carriers have different business plans, they dont have as much in house OH. The OH is still being done however it does not generate any FTEs, so the ratios are not apples to apples comparasions, if you wanted to have a more balanced comparsion you would have to add in all the Vendors workers that do OH and other services for competors and I suspect that if you did then AA's numbers would look very favorable.
The reason why AA kept OH work in house is simple, because it was cheaper. Thats why they actually increased insourcing and not only sent out recall offers to all their mechanics but have hired hundreds more this year. AA and other legacy carriers had the volume of work that made doing work in house cost effective, however AA was always given some sort of advantage over competitors, whether it was losing the first year towards pensionable time, to B-scale, to SRPs to being the first to give up LTD, fully company paid Medical, less sick time, less vacation etc etc. The final nail in the coffin for in house OH at competitors was when AA was able to get bigger concessions outside of BK than they were able to get in BK. The fact is the company has never claimed that doing work in house is not cost effective, its a given that it will drive labor costs above those places that outsource most of that work and its unrealistic for management to expect otherwise. The actions of the company indicate that there is no disadvantage and that outsourcing must be costly, either in the actuall cost of having a vendor complete the tasks or the followup corrections that the carrier must do when they get their planes back. If outsourcing was cheaper, and readily availble, then why does AA have all those planes being maintained in Roswell and why arent those planes already in Timco in NC? Certainly even with a crew shortage it would make sense to get these planes back in service and keep spare Aircraft at their cornerstone cities than it would be to store them in Roswell. They are paying for them either way but if they had them as spares it could improve their DOT stats. Isnt the company considering keeping a spare 777 in JFK from now on?

Low-fare, new entrant carriers are also building expensive terminals. In the last decade, Southwest has largely or fully financed the building of brand new or dramatically refurbished terminals in BWI, HOU and MDW; JetBlue built a huge and very impressive terminal at JFK, etc.

And both of those carriers pay their mechanics much more than AA. I have no problem with how a business spends their money as long as they take care of their workers first. I have a problem when they say we cant afford to give you anything because we want a new fleet of aircraft, new terminals and countless other expenditures that they can do without. I'm tired of doing without so AA doesnt have to.
 
Not really,are you claiming the the Institutions that are buying these aircraft arent going to collect a lot more over the term than they are paying? The idea of AA buying a plane then selling it for an up front advance to the lease company sounds like a scam that will cost AA more over the long term than either just buying or leasing it without all the paper shuffling.

No – that’s not at all what I’m claiming.

AA’s own presentation (see slide 17) stated that each of the firm aircraft (I believe that’s referring to the first 260) have a positive NPV of $3.3M. That means that the present value of the aircraft’s cash fuel savings, enhanced cash-generating revenue opportunities, lower cash maintenance cost, etc. outweighs the present value of its lifetime of cash lease payments, cash maintenance expenses, upfront cash cost for new GSE/training, etc. by $3.3M. That’s great news for AA and every single AA employee.

In addition, several analyses (see here) – and I believe also Horton’s own comments – stated that these aircraft will be cash-flow positive pretty much from day one. AA will be taking on new cash outlays for new GSE and training (although reports two months ago were that Airbus was helping allay some of those costs), and also immediately begin paying monthly cash lease payments, but on the flip side these planes will have far lower cash maintenance costs, higher dispatch reliability (which also drives lower cash outlay), etc. This, too, is good news for everyone.

JFK was fine the way it was, in fact they had only done a major refurbishing a few years prior to tearing it down, more wasted money, in the end we had less gates than we had before. So they spent billions and ended up with fewer gates.

“Fine the way it was?” Are you kidding me? The old T8/T9 was horrid – not quite as bad as Delta’s T3 is today, but it was absolutely embarrassing. Ceiling tiles missing or leaking, walls dirty, carpets pulling up. It looked like sh*t. My great friend who was a gate agent at JFK for 20 years was over-the-moon thrilled when they announced they were getting rid of that old POS terminal. Yeah – they spent a lot of money on a smaller terminal, but a far, far better one. And, let’s not forget that the reason that terminal is smaller, and also part of the reason why it was more expensive, was because of 9/11 – had that not have happened, the construction probably wouldn’t have been downsized or slowed down.

How are pajamas Investments? How is putting entertainment systems in airplanes that going to the desert a good investment. "Investment" is simply a smokescreen to justify excessive and wasteful spending.

Huh? AA is putting pajamas on the 763s and 777s – none of which, as far as I know, are going to the desert in the near-future. The “investment” AA is making is to keep its product competitive so that high-value premium customers will continue to buy tickets with AA instead of the competition.

Really? Where will they go when the system is running 80% load factors? Does Southwest give away Pajamas and have entertainment systems? Like I said most people have their own PEDs.

Again, huh? AA isn’t providing pajamas and seat-back entertainment systems on the 2pm DFW-AUS. We’re talking about high-premium, business-intensive international markets where AA’s competition isn’t Southwest or Frontier. It’s British Airways, JAL, United, Air France, Delta (have you seen what Delta has started doing to their 763s – impressive). But, while we’re on the subject, even in the U.S. AA is now competing increasingly against airlines that have far, far better inflight products – like JetBlue and Virgin America.

Other Legacy carriers have different business plans, they dont have as much in house OH. The OH is still being done however it does not generate any FTEs, so the ratios are not apples to apples comparasions, if you wanted to have a more balanced comparsion you would have to add in all the Vendors workers that do OH and other services for competors and I suspect that if you did then AA's numbers would look very favorable.
And both of those carriers pay their mechanics much more than AA. I have no problem with how a business spends their money as long as they take care of their workers first.

You can’t have it both ways. Pick which way you want it – either you include outsourced labor (maintenance and/or otherwise) in airline-to-airline comparisons, or you don’t.

By your own stated best metric of airline labor productivity – revenue generated per FTE – AA’s labor force is basically the least productive in the United States, in general by a wide margin. So you want to now say that this isn’t a fair comparison, so we need to add in all of the FTEs that are performing overhauls at third parties doing outsourced overhaul work for AA’s competitors. Fine.

But then when it comes to average pay per mechanic, you want to compare only the mechanics employed in-house at U.S. carriers, and not include the outsourced mechanics doing much of the work. So sure, AA mechanics – on average – may make less than mechanics that are employed directly by Southwest, Delta, etc., but I’m willing to guess that if we applied your same revenue-per-FTE logic and compared the average AA mechanic wage against the average aggregated wage of a mechanic performing work – whether in-house or at a third party – for other carriers, AA’s average probably stacks up fairly well. Just out of curiosity: what do you expect the average wage of a mechanic doing work on JetBlue planes is when you include the mechanics in El Salvador performing their overhauls? What is the average wage of a mechanic performing work on Delta’s widebodies when you include the mechanics in Hong Kong performing work for them?

Again – pick which way you want it, but you can’t have it both ways to suit whichever argument you’re trying to make at that particular time.
 

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