AMFA not filing

[1AA]

I call BS on a 1,000 cards short.
 
There are around 1,000 Utility at US on layoff who have lifetime recall rights alone, there is no way in a months time they were able to contact them and get any Utility to sign cards.
 

Nobody did contact them because of the time frame. Their numbers are more than 1,000. More like 1,400 from what was told to me from a USAir organizer.

 

[700UW]

US never had more than 1,000 Utility.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You aren't your wife, you have no vote, you left AA and took taxpayer money to go to school, how much unemployment did you collect too?

Still collecting those "entitlements" 700UW?
 
Yeah, I thought so.

 

[Overspeed]

Hackman you expose your ignorance again. The SK bank was in the TA increasing from 5 to 8 per year plus an accelerator for severe long term illness. Those who were age 45 to 49 + 364 days would get time added to their SK bank. Got sucked in to the vote no coalition BS I see.
 
Another ill-informed AMFA supporter.

 

[bigjets]

You are such a sheep.  Honestly, the only eye rolling I see is when the TWU promises to get em next time!

My way would have put $40k plus in our pocket, and an additional 15 days in our sick bank. Your way got us nothing.

Like I said, the loudest know the least. Even with the benefit of hindsight you still say it's better to vote no rather then have actual cash in your pocket. That's money the twu can't withhold for whatever reason they decide.

Now this speculation, but if AA was able to setup an OH pay rate and a line pay rate, maybe AA wouldn't be outsourcing all that work. Maybe AFW and TUL guys wouldn't have to move all over the system to stay working at AA. who knows for sure, but what is an undeniable fact is, we would have over $40k in cash alone and 3 weeks more of sick time in our bank paid at 100%.

 

[MetalMover]

My way would have put $40k plus in our pocket, and an additional 15 days in our sick bank. Your way got us nothing.

Like I said, the loudest know the least. Even with the benefit of hindsight you still say it's better to vote no rather then have actual cash in your pocket. That's money the twu can't withhold for whatever reason they decide.

Now this speculation, but if AA was able to setup an OH pay rate and a line pay rate, maybe AA wouldn't be outsourcing all that work. Maybe AFW and TUL guys wouldn't have to move all over the system to stay working at AA. who knows for sure, but what is an undeniable fact is, we would have over $40k in cash alone and 3 weeks more of sick time in our bank paid at 100%.

No one was forced to vote one way or another. Sure there were the YES votes and then there were the NO votes. At then end of the day, each and everyone of us voted what we thought was best. I know I did... Did YOU? Or was someone holding a knife to your throat when you voted?

 

[1AA]

US never had more than 1,000 Utility.

I made a few calls to get in touch with a USAir organizer who was involved with the teamsters drive and that is the number on record from that drive. He said the number is unchanged during this recent 30 day drive. They may not all be utilities. I believe him over you because he still works for USAir and has direct contacts unlike you who chairs from the sidelines. Either way we fell short but we managed to get new signers this time. That shows guys are starting to wake up and are pi$$ed off. It's just a matter of time. The association is so disorganized and will make things up along the road to pick up right where the TWU/IAM left off.

 

[bigjets]

No one was forced to vote one way or another. Sure there were the YES votes and then there were the NO votes. At then end of the day, each and everyone of us voted what we thought was best. I know I did... Did YOU? Or was someone holding a knife to your throat when you voted?

I'm the one for advocating no union over anything to do with the twu. I don't vote on emotion or what is right or wrong, I vote for the best deal possible . I thought the 2010 contract was as good as it was going to get. 2 years after the financial collapse, all the other legacy airlines have cut pensions, retiree medical and farmed out OH. That 2010 contract was as good as it was going to get.

Now I will vote NO for anything less then 7% above delta, that includes a better then 10% CONTRIBUTION to the 401k, 10 sk days, another week of VC, shift diff better. Now is when we should do very well in a contract. This all stuff the APA and APFA did for their members, but then again their union leadership is held accountable.

I'm hoping the association doesn't negotiate a deal where the thought process is, we should take less money so we can have more jobs. Because that plan never works out. Didn't work in 2003 and 2012. You guys need to think more and act like teenage girls less.

 

[Vortilon]

My way would have put $40k plus in our pocket, and an additional 15 days in our sick bank. Your way got us nothing.

Like I said, the loudest know the least. Even with the benefit of hindsight you still say it's better to vote no rather then have actual cash in your pocket. That's money the twu can't withhold for whatever reason they decide.

Now this speculation, but if AA was able to setup an OH pay rate and a line pay rate, maybe AA wouldn't be outsourcing all that work. Maybe AFW and TUL guys wouldn't have to move all over the system to stay working at AA. who knows for sure, but what is an undeniable fact is, we would have over $40k in cash alone and 3 weeks more of sick time in our bank paid at 100%.

 
OH/Line pay rate?  Yeah, that was gonna happen.  Wouldn't have to move all over the system?  I've moved 3 times, it's an airline - this kinda stuff is to be planned for.  Don't sit on your high horse talking about how much more we would have had if we just voted yes the first time in 2010.  If our union leadership wasn't afraid of their own shadows, we could have held out for more.  Hindsight? There was no reason for me not to expect a better offer, the first was about as bad as I expected.  The TWU didn't waste any time bringing back an even worse contract though.  Then convincing enough sheep that this was it.

 

[bigjets]

OH/Line pay rate?  Yeah, that was gonna happen.  Wouldn't have to move all over the system?  I've moved 3 times, it's an airline - this kinda stuff is to be planned for.  Don't sit on your high horse talking about how much more we would have had if we just voted yes the first time in 2010.  If our union leadership wasn't afraid of their own shadows, we could have held out for more.  Hindsight? There was no reason for me not to expect a better offer, the first was about as bad as I expected.  The TWU didn't waste any time bringing back an even worse contract though.  Then convincing enough sheep that this was it.

You're going to hold out for more? There was no reason to hold out for more, AA put us on the back burner until we went into bankruptcy and took even more. What did you do hold your breath and stomp your feet. How has being in a union worked for you. I can see why a guy like you NEEDS a union. It's easy to spout off in the break room what the negotiators should do and what you would have done. I would not consider bob Owens a union flunky or a company guy. How much was he able to get for us. The laws are against airline unions and the industrial unions give every indication of being more concerned with getting more union members rather then negotiing on our behalf.

But you go ahead and hold out, because that works, you yell in the break room what you would have done, because I'm sure that idea has never been thought of before. Think more like a man and less like a teenage girl who had her phone taken away.

You are not worth my time, consider yourself lucky that I even responded to you.

 

[Hackman]

Hackman you expose your ignorance again. The SK bank was in the TA increasing from 5 to 8 per year plus an accelerator for severe long term illness. Those who were age 45 to 49 + 364 days would get time added to their SK bank. Got sucked in to the vote no coalition BS I see.
 
Another ill-informed AMFA supporter.

Never saw the "vote No coalition", the 2010 TWu proposal sucked was about it.  8 sick days, 5 sick days... still a long way from the 12 sick days we had before 2003 isn't it Overdweeb?  Yes, so long ago when Jimmy Dolittle caved "without further ratification" with the just a threat of BK.  You didn't address the question as to why the TWu discriminated against those under 50? I know, its a hard question.  How about the loss of the IOD days to only 10? Another difficult one to ignore.  I won't dive into the rest of the TWu concession abomination of 2003, since you know them all so well.
 
Now lets see the TWu/IAm abortion perform. The TWu should be able to "reach into them deep AA pockets" and pull out a industry leading contract we can all vote yes on, as we know your a yes man either way.
 

 

[swamt]

swamt,
You spoke about the ability of SWA AMFA members to purchase retiree medical with SK time. I pointed out that the plan you have had, we were going to go to for our under 50 members only while maintaining for the 50 and older people the prefunding system with company match.
 
As you stated the SK payment plan is a viable alterative to the prefunding plan but now we have neither SK time funding or pre-funding. I would very much like to have been on the SK time funded plan. How do your members like it? I would like that option in our next CBA.

If you are being serious, yes our members like it. Who wouldn't?  It takes control in order to save the sick time, it also helps the company to reduce abused sick time as most will save their SK for the build up of trading it in later for 5 years of early retirement. It is also just one little perk to get retired approaching employees out instead of staying until they are 70-something years old or greater.  We retain 12 days per year of SK time so about 96 hours per year, so in less than 7 years we can very well have enough SK to trade in for the 5 years.  It's a win win for the employees as well as the company.  If you play your cards right the company will have to pay for the SK in one way or the other, why not have a program to help stop the abuse of SK time?  Most younger employees don't think about this. Since we have this benefit, I am planning on retiring at least by 60 if not 58 or even 55 at the very earliest.  My father retired at 55 and that is my absolute goal, but not sure (for now) if I will make that.  But at least I will have an option to go earlier than the standard 65-70 years old. A very nice option to have.  Hope you guys can get it installed in your up coming contract, but I think you guys are going to have more resistance than you are playing out here.  I mean nothing negative about that, but, if the new AA is going to give you guys D+7 it will come at a price and it will in fact take longer than one contract to get back what you guys once had, and I'm talking from 1983, and especially since 1993 and 2003.  Good luck to you guys, I hope you shoot to the top of the industry in pay and bennies...

 

[Overspeed]

swamt,
Ideally the company for all retiree medical would be what we all want. But the SK plan works. What's the max SK bank accrual?

 

[Overspeed]

Hackman,
TWU didn't discriminate. They made the best out of crappy situation. Voting down the TA didn't help but hurt us. Now we have no retiree medical. So if you are worried about being discriminated now we are all in the same crappy boat. You got what you wanted. Great job Hackman. Winning.

 

[Vortilon]

Hackman,
TWU didn't discriminate. They made the best out of crappy situation. Voting down the TA didn't help but hurt us. Now we have no retiree medical. So if you are worried about being discriminated now we are all in the same crappy boat. You got what you wanted. Great job Hackman. Winning.

 
You are such a hypocrite.  On one hand you accuse the AMFA supporters of pitting the line against OH.  Yet here you are defending the screwing of the loyal dues payers cause they hadn't reached the age of 50.  I guess it depends on your point of view.  Best of a crappy situation....BS!