American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

I just want to see Robert Isom live up to his word to release the entire FULL LANGUAGE proposals on Jetnet.

 

[MetalMover]

Having watched the SOTA video pertaining to negotiations. I am glad to see union reps, TCC and the fleet service clerk there asking and stating what they did. I also feel that DP and RI answered in the way they did based on the company's position. That is not necessarily lying.
I took away some interesting things. The company wants to operate how the other airlines operate. Plain and simple.
The union wants to keep what it has. Right there, the union looks at it as concessionary. And right there is the reason the union will NOT even let the membership look at the proposal IF and WHEN there is a full text proposal.
I can truly see both sides of the debate even at the risk of being accused of being against my union and more pro-company. The company wants what it wants. The union wants what it wants. In one comment the 513 rep stated that the raise we got was not a gift. He was right. He also said it was right to do because of what we went through. But does anyone think we would have gotten a contract by now if we did not get the raise and they the cross utilization? I don't. Imagine going through all this stalling and NOT having received the money?
On the deicing issue, I understand it is current work being done by fleet service members. But it is NOT a daily job which would directly hits fleet service numbers. As some fleet service members would tell you, there was no mechanic job loss when fleet took the work from maintenance for exactly the same reason. It is NOT a daily function.. Pushbacks was a daily task and I don't recall layoffs because of it. I recently spoke to a fleet service clerk who actually said he wouldn't mind losing the deicing if they got the aircraft moves. RIGHT TO MY FACE! WOW! And please don't tell me he's just one person who feels that way. I have had both the company and even my union tell mechanics that mechanics should only do mechanics' work. All the time having transferred deicing and pushbacks to fleet over the years. I guess then it was justified because other TWU members got the work. And now, when the aircraft moves eventually do go to fleet, once again they will gladly hop into the goldhofers and do it.
All three company leaders stated everyone here now will have a job in their classification AND station. My union reps tell me not to believe it.
Can someone else tell me why I should not believe them? And please don't tell me because that at the end of the contract that won't apply anymore. Isn't every contract good only for the life of it?
Lastly, I applaud the Tul TCC for explaining the feeling in his base. I was surprised he mentioned being held hostage by the IAM. I doubt very much he is the only one who feels that way. We have the minority union adding to stalling of negotiations because of the medical and pension.
The only solution is this: WHEN THE COMPANY GIVES THE UNION A FULL TEXT PROPOSAL, BRING IT TO A VOTE AND LET THE MEBERSHIP DECIDE!
If it is as bad as the association says it is, it will be voted down? TRUST THE MEMBERSHIP!

 

[MetalMover]

TRUST THE MEMBERSHIP!

 

[MetalMover]

I just want to see Robert Isom live up to his word to release the entire FULL LANGUAGE proposals on Jetnet.

Me too. Do you believe we should vote on it? Or let the association stamp DOA on it?

 

[WeAAsles]

Im just glad the WHOLE ASSOCIATION negotiating committee showed up at the sota to throw the bull **** flag on parker and isom. Man theres nothing like a good old show of solidarity from our imposed leadership! Its not like you couldnt anticipate the song and dance at the dog and pony show. Kind of makes you wonder sometimes.

You do know that many of them were in Ft Lauderdale all the way up to Friday.

It does seem like some of the typical posters here want to minimize the contributions of Brian Parker, Mark Gray and Greg Cosey where personally they did a fantastic job calling out those snake oil salesmen.

 

[WeAAsles]

Me too. Do you believe we should vote on it? Or let the association stamp DOA on it?

You already asked me that question and I answered it Metal, remember.

I know Forums has the reputation that we must repeat ourselves to death but I really don’t enjoy that way of conversation.

 

[MetalMover]

You already asked me that question and I answered it Metal, remember.

I know Forums has the reputation that we must repeat ourselves to death but I really don’t enjoy that way of conversation.

I am aware WeAAz. But since you mentioned the company living up to their word, I asked the question again. Maybe you can answer it again for all those who didn't read it the first time?
I guess it is impossible for you to respond without a snide lecture.

 

[MetalMover]

Have to say the company appears to be winning the propaganda bull **** race this week. Wonder when the associations rebuttal will come out. If the company actually publishes the full text proposal life could get interesting.
The mechanic from tulsa was spot on. If anybody knows him, thank him for showing up!

The questions were asked directly and to the point. They were answered in similar fashion.
Both sides need to put their money where their mouths are, get a proposal out for a vote and let the membership decide.

 

[WeAAsles]

I am aware WeAAz. But since you mentioned the company living up to their word, I asked the question again. Maybe you can ask it again for all those who didn't read it the first time?
I guess it is impossible for you to respond without a snide lecture.

My answer is NO. I let my Negotiators negotiate for me. If they think it’s time for us to vote on something then I’ll listen to their reasons why.

And if they want to share their recommendations on how I should vote I’ll hear that out too.

 

[MetalMover]

My answer is NO. I let my Negotiators negotiate for me. If they think it’s time for us to vote on something then I’ll listen to their reasons why.

And if they want to share their recommendations on how I should vote I’ll hear that out too.

Nice union, ignore the will of the membership. May work for sheep, but not me. And before you respond with some technical reference on the TWU constitution, remember this: I did NOT vote on any negotiator nor did I vote for any international position.

 

[WeAAsles]

Nice union, ignore the will of the membership. May work for sheep, but not me.

Metal if you go back to it I did say that I think there would be a time we should vote. Right now I have too many unanswered questions and no I don’t like their economic package which is the only thing they want to focus on.

I can see how now that the Company has said they will give you the SWA pay even if they don’t ratify that maybe it’s made you positively giddy though?

IF IF IF the Company does put out everything on Jetnet I might concede even though the Negotiations should be done at the table that perhaps the Association should put out their own update on where they stand now as far as what we’re asking for?

And BTW if the Company really is looking for language in Fleet to specify CORE work as being “The Loading and Unloading of Mainline Aircraft” only, why the F do you think we should or would want to vote on that chit?

 

[ATD]

Metal if you go back to it I did say that I think there would be a time we should vote. Right now I have too many unanswered questions and no I don’t like their economic package which is the only thing they want to focus on.

I can see how now that the Company has said they will give you the SWA pay even if they don’t ratify that maybe it’s made you positively giddy though?

IF IF IF the Company does put out everything on Jetnet I might concede even though the Negotiations should be done at the table that perhaps the Association should put out their own update on where they stand now as far as what we’re asking for?

And BTW if the Company really is looking for language in Fleet to specify CORE work as being “The Loading and Unloading of Mainline Aircraft” only, why the F do you think we should or would want to vote on that chit?

You Know nothing Weasy...

 

[MetalMover]

Metal if you go back to it I did say that I think there would be a time we should vote. Right now I have too many unanswered questions and no I don’t like their economic package which is the only thing they want to focus on.

I can see how now that the Company has said they will give you the SWA pay even if they don’t ratify that maybe it’s made you positively giddy though?

IF IF IF the Company does put out everything on Jetnet I might concede even though the Negotiations should be done at the table that perhaps the Association should put out their own update on where they stand now as far as what we’re asking for?

And BTW if the Company really is looking for language in Fleet to specify CORE work as being “The Loading and Unloading of Mainline Aircraft” only, why the F do you think we should or would want to vote on that chit?

Do I agree with everything I see and now so far? No. I am sticking to my position that one way or another, the company will get all, if not most, of what they want. And if this goes on for a couple to several more years, and they still get what they want in the end, then the members will have lost out in more ways the one.
I just don't want to see this happen to any one just for the sake of saying "at least I fought the battle."

 

[swamt]

Having watched the SOTA video pertaining to negotiations. I am glad to see union reps, TCC and the fleet service clerk there asking and stating what they did. I also feel that DP and RI answered in the way they did based on the company's position. That is not necessarily lying.
I took away some interesting things. The company wants to operate how the other airlines operate. Plain and simple.
The union wants to keep what it has. Right there, the union looks at it as concessionary. And right there is the reason the union will NOT even let the membership look at the proposal IF and WHEN there is a full text proposal.
I can truly see both sides of the debate even at the risk of being accused of being against my union and more pro-company. The company wants what it wants. The union wants what it wants. In one comment the 513 rep stated that the raise we got was not a gift. He was right. He also said it was right to do because of what we went through. But does anyone think we would have gotten a contract by now if we did not get the raise and they the cross utilization? I don't. Imagine going through all this stalling and NOT having received the money?
On the deicing issue, I understand it is current work being done by fleet service members. But it is NOT a daily job which would directly hits fleet service numbers. As some fleet service members would tell you, there was no mechanic job loss when fleet took the work from maintenance for exactly the same reason. It is NOT a daily function.. Pushbacks was a daily task and I don't recall layoffs because of it. I recently spoke to a fleet service clerk who actually said he wouldn't mind losing the deicing if they got the aircraft moves. RIGHT TO MY FACE! WOW! And please don't tell me he's just one person who feels that way. I have had both the company and even my union tell mechanics that mechanics should only do mechanics' work. All the time having transferred deicing and pushbacks to fleet over the years. I guess then it was justified because other TWU members got the work. And now, when the aircraft moves eventually do go to fleet, once again they will gladly hop into the goldhofers and do it.
All three company leaders stated everyone here now will have a job in their classification AND station. My union reps tell me not to believe it.
Can someone else tell me why I should not believe them? And please don't tell me because that at the end of the contract that won't apply anymore. Isn't every contract good only for the life of it?
Lastly, I applaud the Tul TCC for explaining the feeling in his base. I was surprised he mentioned being held hostage by the IAM. I doubt very much he is the only one who feels that way. We have the minority union adding to stalling of negotiations because of the medical and pension.
The only solution is this: WHEN THE COMPANY GIVES THE UNION A FULL TEXT PROPOSAL, BRING IT TO A VOTE AND LET THE MEBERSHIP DECIDE!
If it is as bad as the association says it is, it will be voted down? TRUST THE MEMBERSHIP!

Well said M&M.
Since you saw the SOTA video, was there any mention of retro and/or the exact % of outsourcing they want to increase to? Just curious as to the entire ask for the co. so quickly moving to match top of industry wages and ours is still a T/A until May 21st when the vote is concluded. Never seen a co. moving on an offer like that before.
I really hope Isom and co. get out the comprehensive contract proposal to the membership as it would be the "only way" the membership will get fully informed. Just do not understand why this asso. is still keeping the membership so deep in the dark and uninformed, just baffles me. And then they want all you guys get on board and be "unified" and back them, C'mon man!!! Give the members all the info and let them make a decision...

 

[swamt]

Do I agree with everything I see and now so far? No. I am sticking to my position that one way or another, the company will get all, if not most, of what they want. And if this goes on for a couple to several more years, and they still get what they want in the end, then the members will have lost out in more ways the one.
I just don't want to see this happen to any one just for the sake of saying "at least I fought the battle."

Missing out on being moved to mid 50's this year would be a big loss. However, wondering what the cost is the co. is asking for? I do know one thing, if you guys do get to our payscale being just nego. in a T/A, that would be way more than the 3&7% above United would it not?? Hopefully all this can get ironed out by the beginning of next year 2020???