American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

John John are you an Envoy Employee? I tried to access this letter through the Envoy website and putting in what you have in the address bar takes me to asking for my Jetnet code.

Are you one of their Negotiators?



EDIT: Ouch. Reading the postings on the CWA Envoy Facebook page they’re all pretty pissed off there. I didn’t read anyone support the deal. Someone even posted a comparison chart between Envoy and Piedmont.

 

[WeAAsles]

"""""merely a non flinching CWA supporter and not a paid lackey, drone for the organization"""""

That’s great. Looks like you and I are exactly the same. You with your CWA and me with my TWU.

I just edited that post above though and you may want to take a look. Reading the Facebook page all anyone was talking about was the money and the deal being 7 years long.

I will say though that I found this part VERY interesting. So the Company offer for Medical coverage over there was the Employee picking up 18% of the total cost and it going up to 19% on Jan 2020. (You and I are paying 21% on the LAA plans)

I believe I just saw our future rates?

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW John John this is ABSOLUTELY another reason why the deal for Envoy Agents went down in flames.

They would be paying far more in Medical rates than they received in wage increases.

Seeing this tells me that the deal was ridiculous.

 

[Kev3188]

Good. That offer was garbage. I can't imagine anyone voting for it.

 

[Kev3188]

I’ll be damned you have stumble across a new revelation

Baby steps, man, baby steps.

 

[WeAAsles]

And thanks to union members supporters and advocates like you this will be kept alive

The minimum 14 year (Are they kidding) TOS Base is $16.25. DFW was $16.75 while LGA, JFK and LAX would have been $21.25 on DOS.

So are you naive enough to think the $21.25 rate was going to be applied Nationwide?

If there was to be a flat Nationwide rate it likely would have ended up closest to the DFW rate with perhaps .50 more?

Yes I make no bones about it that I do support “Location pay” or “COLA’s” as what I see as the best mechanism to gain or maintain as many Stations and choices of places to live and work as possible under our Union agreements.

Now that does not mean I support any Stations currently held receiving the short end of the stick and going backwards or even standing pat with their current wages. All Stations currently held should be Grandfathered to the Legacy rates.

We currently hold 40 Stations for the combined TWU/IAM Groups. I support any creative solutions to being that number up to 80 if possible. Currently we have no options at all.

 

[Kev3188]

We currently hold 40 Stations for the combined TWU/IAM Groups. I support any creative solutions to being that number up to 80 if possible. Currently we have no options at all.

Unfortunately, those "creative solutions" usually involve shifting work away from Mainline employees and towards Envoy/DGS/UGE. etc...

AA getting to 80 and/or holding onto the 7 flt/week. LOA would be a victory not just for you guys, but for the industry as a whole, and labor in general.

 

[WeAAsles]

I’ll be damned you have stumble across a new revelation

I have not been focused on what is going on with the Commuter groups as much as I am focused on our own issues. Until you posted the results frankly I had not looked at their Facebook page for the few months since the TA announcement was made.

Meaning I did not concern myself with reading the entirety of their deal.

But I’m still trying to ascertain if you are being critical of that CWA Represented deal, their Negotiators or the CWA as a whole?

 

[WeAAsles]

John John over time if your CWA is not creative on those wages in Class 2 cities you guys will absolutely be vendored out and lose the ability to work in those locations.

I expect over time that the CWA will agree to a B Scale to keep those cities within the Contract and Represented. A Scale Workers will slowly attrition out over time.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW here is the number of flights that were affected by the grounding of the 737 Max for 3 Airlines.

Not exactly devastating losses. 1.27% of the Total flight schedule for AA.

 

[WeAAsles]

Weasel
Let’s see you support a B scale and multiple pay scale base on location accessibly

You’re showing you colors

It’s your language I’m reading. 35 weekly departures or less in the future have a drop dead date on them through attrition.

Would you prefer the solution of just saying equal pay to the last day knowing absolutely there will be a last day? You’re only “temporarily” owning your work in those cities. How many of them right now are at risk if your Contract was up for renewal?

You have a Time Bomb on your hands.

And I will tell you 100% I would vote yes for a B Scale if MEM would be reopened and my friend could go home.

My perspective comes from working in 2 Hubs where I have met all sorts of commuters from all over the Country who would GLADLY agree to be paid somewhat less if they had the opportunity to go home.

John John have you ever been a Commuter? Do you know what it’s like to be away from your home for YEARS?

And I appreciate and respect the opinions of any Union Represented Employees who work for American Airlines.

 

[Kev3188]

Weasel
Let’s see you support a B scale and multiple pay scale base on location accessibly

You’re showing you colors

There has to be “creative solutions” that work better than that. The Mainline Express experiment at US was not in labor’s benefit at all.

 

[Tim Nelson]

There has to be “creative solutions” that work better than that. The Mainline Express experiment at US was not in labor’s benefit at all.

It was not good as I was making 20% less than a big station. Any sacrifice, in bankruptcy, should have been a shared sacrifice. Not hammering PT and non hubs. But unions want to pass contracts that are ratified. Kissing stations where the votes are is all that matters since it's a job and a business to Mike Klemm and Sito.
They just changed the names. Instead of class 2, they have United Ground Express. Several displaced members got recalls back to their stations where United Ground Servies works and if they accepted such recall, they were hosed with the UGE contract. Atkinson's wife was one who turned down a recall to orange county or Ontario?

 

[conehead777]

TWU wrote the playbook with Envoy/American Engel

How to whipsaw airline union work and kept dues paying members

All the TWU/iam are business who are out to make money. And they could careless about there members. As long as they get the most dues payers. Weather we take pay and benefits cuts. Then pay Pollyannas we know who they are and I blocked them. They are enjoying there pay to lie about how great the twu/iam are

 

[737823]

Pointing the finger at who is responsible for whipsawing airline union work? Is that your point? Always wonder why TWU didn’t finish organizing American Engel/Envoy they already had a large portion under a TWU CBA. Why did TWU back down and CWA step in

Why did CWA organize Piedmont Express and IAM TWU stand down

A lot of resources are going into Envoy and Piedmont Express and mainline Passenger Service are second fiddle

One thing for sure jerry sure has exploit the relationships

Is that the ineptitude you’re talking about

The IAM started the race to the bottom with Air Wisconsin replacing mainline work at UA and NW.

Josh