American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

Why a CWA EnvoyNegotiatori worried about AA Envoy’s payroll

I have no idea why she’s said that

I just found the comment incredibly odd. I don’t expect a Union Rep to ever worry about the difficulties of something that should be more of a Management concern than a Workers concern.

CWA didn’t put out the voting result of the first Piedmont Express TA that was voted down. why I don’t know

AMFA did the same thing on their last rejected vote as well. I think maybe they think it’s bad telegraphing to the Company to have that info?

“I” think it’s even worse to hide the results from the Members.

Either way the results send an honest message to the Company of their workers feelings. If a TA was dramatically rejected than a few tweaks here or there is not going to change the results. And if the Union is embarrassed cause they wanted to sell it and couldn’t, they need to buck up and swallow the loss.

And if a TA only fails by a slim margin then the Company knows they may only have to tweak a few items for it to pass.

 

[WeAAsles]

AMFA didn't for our first T/A either just that 98% voted and it failed.

Exactly. It shows a massive lack of transparency on the Unions part IMO.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Dvlhog212, you give the truth and facts a disagree, post why?

The most recent combined seniority has 9706 for AA. Not your inflated 12000. We maintain 10 fleet types vs 1 to SWA. I do not have the numbers for SWA in regards to fleet and number of mechanics. However I believe if you so blatantly inflated our numbers. One could surmise you low balled their's. We are not going to fall for the failed strategy of sacrificing cash for jobs. We have all been there and done that. Jobs are going to go away by attrition or RIF.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Heard that one before

And they do. Every. Single. Time.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

Did you count Inspectors, Maintenance Control etc?

WN 2,400 mechanics and you can’t state if, when and how jobs MIGHT go away at AA now who’s not truthful? No jobs should go away at all.

http://investors.southwest.com/~/media/Files/S/Southwest-IR/Bookmarked Annual no blanks.pdf

“Our Mechanics certainly deserve a new contract, and we believe this industry-leading Agreement in Principle addresses our Employees' interests. The parties were able to agree to a work rule change that allowed the Company to add compensation to the previous Tentative Agreement. I want to thank both negotiating teams for finding a solution that takes care of our People and protects the long-term success of our Company. I would also like to thank the National Mediation Board (NMB) for their expertise in helping us reach this agreement.”

According to AA’s 2018 10k 12,450 Mechanics and related, so I was not being untruthful. So I guess you can report AA to the SEC for filing a false 10k

https://americanairlines.gcs-web.com/static-files/ceb67596-d59a-41e3-ad0c-b5556dd43b4a

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I`m referencing the combined AMTs at NAA, 9706. Yes, that number includes inspectors, CC, TCC,OSM and a handful of cleaners. All members in "title 1". Does the 2400 at SWA include ONLY AMTs? As for the job losses here at AA the company has already stated their intentions of dropping our headcount in overhaul by 2200 and on the line by 900, but I`m betting you already knew that.

You seem to be on the ball this morning. Can you tell us how many FSC/aircraft AA has vs SWA? How do those wages compare? I`m betting our AA FSC are leading the industry in pay. Thats something the AMTs have never been able to lay claim to.

We are sick and tired of this war on AMTs. Why you people have such an issue with us is beyond me. The twu apologists constant attacks on my group only deepen the divide and resentment. I have some friends in the FSC group and have had civil conversations with Weez on here.

 

[dfw gen]

Exactly. It shows a massive lack of transparency on the Unions part IMO.

And the twu and association are masters of transparency....

 

[WeAAsles]

And the twu and association are masters of transparency....

Can you explain to me on exactly what you feel they are not being transparent with you? If they are in a room talking and things aren’t being written down what particularly do you want them to show you?

Let me use the latest AMFA news as an example for you. AMFA and SWA have an AIP (Agreement in “Principle”)

And Agreement in “Principle” means they have reached a verbal agreement on their outstanding issues and now have to put it into TA language.

Again where I do feel the Association is failing right now is in explaining how the process works.

Many Members seem to be under the false impression that proposals are still being passed back and forth in writing. When it reaches this far in it gets to the point where things are more verbal than written until agreements are reached.

But what do I know. I’m just a Baggage Handler.

 

[WeAAsles]

The most recent combined seniority has 9706 for AA. Not your inflated 12000. We maintain 10 fleet types vs 1 to SWA. I do not have the numbers for SWA in regards to fleet and number of mechanics. However I believe if you so blatantly inflated our numbers. One could surmise you low balled their's. We are not going to fall for the failed strategy of sacrificing cash for jobs. We have all been there and done that. Jobs are going to go away by attrition or RIF.

His posting was also counting the “And Related” Groups. Since his numbers came from the latest 10K filing they would be pretty much on the money plus or minus a few.

But just talking Title 1 only you would then be correct. How old is your recent combined Seniority list?

Depending on its age your Group may have gone up or down by a few hundred?

 

[WeAAsles]

You seem to be on the ball this morning. Can you tell us how many FSC/aircraft AA has vs SWA? How do those wages compare? I`m betting our AA FSC are leading the industry in pay. Thats something the AMTs have never been able to lay claim to.

There are around 12,000 Ramp and Related at SWA. The Airline Data Project doesn’t break down Union Represented Fleet Service Baggage Handlers concisely. It’s sort of a mish mosh of added workers so it can’t be precisely quantified.

Same thing basically if you just wanted to separate Aircraft Mechanics solely and not include the and Related groups.

Fleet in just wages is now # 2 behind UAL. In overall compensation we are 4th behind Delta, UAL and SWA. Those groups have those extra Holidays and extras that we are still waiting on in a JCBA. They have higher Reitirement contributions and they have a better Profit Sharing Plan. The UAL Ramp PS is contractual.

We are sick and tired of this war on AMTs. Why you people have such an issue with us is beyond me. The twu apologists constant attacks on my group only deepen the divide and resentment. I have some friends in the FSC group and have had civil conversations with Weez on here.

Who do you feel particularly is attacking you? Fleet Service has no reason to attack any individual professional AMT’s except when they try to elevate their own selves by trying to denigrate our work or education.

As far as a TWU apologist. There is no one who has ever apologized for that acronym that I’m aware of. You sometimes fall into the same (offensive) traps of language that others propel on here and I wish you wouldn’t do that because I DO respect you and your group.

Besides have you even been paying one drop of attention at how hard the TWU as an organization (Samuelsen and Peterson particularly) have been applying pressure to keep your jobs here and not outsource any more work.

When do we start to focus on the “PEOPLE” and foget the stenciled “ACRONYM” on the door?

 

[WeAAsles]

 

[MikeS]

Is your venerated CWA that inept that they need a year and a half to prepare?

Personally I don’t think they are.



No the majority of your voting Membership decided to pass a deal that they found acceptable and they again found that deal acceptable by a pretty large margin.

73% YES to 27% NO.

You have no business being in a Union if you don’t have the personal respect to accept the will of the Majority.

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It seems to me if you truly believe this then we should vote on the company's last offer and let the "Will of the Majority" decide.

 

[WeAAsles]

It seems to me if you truly believe this then we should vote on the company's last offer and let the "Will of the Majority" decide.

Although there are many who believe otherwise. The Company has not formally offered any “last offer” and if individuals really wanted to vote so badly they could have voted on day 1 when Jerry Glass offered the Association to “Just take one Contract or the other and we’ll give you the money” that was refused.

We elect directly and through proxy those who will negotiate on our behalf. Those individuals are also negotiating off the surveys that we filled out early on that told them what we wanted.

Those surveys did not ask if things get tough should we acquiesce (submit) and just take whatever we can get.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW they are Negotiating again this week. It might be wise for the Company to back off some of their stances towards outsourcing with this current spotlight that has been growing on the practice.

The optics are currently not in their favor that it’s a good idea to portray.

 

[WeAAsles]

It seems to me if you truly believe this then we should vote on the company's last offer and let the "Will of the Majority" decide.

BTW Mike in that case the CWA had 5 Negotiators who decided whether or not a TA would be sent to the Membership for a vote. 4 voted to TA and 1 opposed that decision.

The 4 then went out on a Roadshow to explain why they supported the deal and again that deal was then voted on by the total Membership and passed 7000 Yes to 2500 No or 73% Yes to 27% No.

 

[MikeS]

Although there are many who believe otherwise. The Company has not formally offered any “last offer” and if individuals really wanted to vote so badly they could have voted on day 1 when Jerry Glass offered the Association to “Just take one Contract or the other and we’ll give you the money” that was refused.

We elect directly and through proxy those who will negotiate on our behalf. Those individuals are also negotiating off the surveys that we filled out early on that told them what we wanted.

Those surveys did not ask if things get tough should we acquiesce (submit) and just take whatever we can get.

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I'm not saying "Last Offer" but if we wanted to vote on the company's latest offer all it would take is a phone call to the company to accept what's on the table for a vote.

You are incorrect about voting on who would represent us at the bargaining table. We were not allowed to vote for the current representation.

In our case one/any individual on the nego comm. can vote against bringing the offer out to the members for a vote. How is this the "Will of the People".