American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

Guess not

GVP/700/Lavman is no doubt huddling with "Top" people at the pbgc as we speak.

 

[WeAAsles]

Well, I posted the official summary by the experts. However, I guess you can believe it isn't.

No. You only posted “ONE” Paragraph.

The rest you cherry picked what fit your agenda to convince your argument of a pending economic catastrophe to the fund.

Look again I highly doubt I’m going to be offered inclusion into your fund anyway ultimately but I really just hate the BS your trying to sell either # 1 because you desperately want out of it or # 2 your trying to help the Company get out from underneath it for the lowest possible price they can.

The Company offered 9%. 5% of that being a contribution and 4% more being a match. That is not industry leading. And not enough to let the Company out from under their cost for continuing with the IAMPF.

 

[WeAAsles]

Can any LAA poster tell me what the current percentage of funding is for our frozen Defined Benefit Pension?

Hint: It’s currently no where near 92% for its “long term” liabilities.

This is the last funding report for the IAMPF. Doesn’t appear on the surface to be in any critical condition at the moment. Could it become so over time, of course it could. Could (unfortunately) adjustments be made to make it last longer, of course they could. And they will legally need to if it reaches that point in time.

 

[WeAAsles]

TWU International Executive Committee meeting this week. Doesn’t sound as if TWU President John Samuelsen has any desire to entertain any concessions to AA Management on our JCBA talks.

 

[Kev3188]

Its my plan, obviously i dont want the experts to be right. I only presented their professional assessment and not mine. Thats why they paid them the big bucks.
I suggest you do 2 things:
1. Contact the actuary and tell them that the iam is going to have an explosion of members as you just indicated, and that your personal economin model shows a great trajectory. If you manage to convince them of your newly discovered data then i owe you a beer for saving my pension.

If it doesn't survive JCBA talks, I can't see them avoiding future benefit cuts. It'll be a repeat of when we (NW) lost representation and our stopped contributing to the plan.

Can any LAA poster tell me what the current percentage of funding is for our frozen Defined Benefit Pension?

I know this was a rhetorical question, but do you know what it actually is? I'm just curious. Our statement came out recently, but I haven't dug into it yet.

 

[WeAAsles]

If it doesn't survive JCBA talks, I can't see them avoiding future benefit cuts. It'll be a repeat of when we (NW) lost representation and our stopped contributing to the plan.

I don’t know what to say to you Kev. You don’t support it anyway so if more and more people are given the option to drop out or it’s agreed to let more Companies opt out, I suppose it would have to make more cuts in the future to survive?

Isn’t that what you want anyway? No more Pensions, only 401K’s?

I know this was a rhetorical question, but do you know what it actually is? I'm just curious. Our statement came out recently, but I haven't dug into it yet.

Not really. I haven’t read through the Company’s last 10K filing.

I suspect it’s still somewhere in the 60% + range.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok, thanks. I think ours in that neighborhood too, but would have to look.

As for deferred compensation, I support any method that gives workers the most control over their futures. Right now that is a 401k. People get their $$$ today, companies don't have that liability, and maybe most importantly, they can't hold it over worker's heads to extract other concessions.

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok, thanks. I think ours in that neighborhood too, but would have to look.

As for deferred compensation, I support any method that gives workers the most control over their futures. Right now that is a 401k. People get their $$$ today, companies don't have that liability, and maybe most importantly, they can't hold it over worker's heads to extract other concessions.

You’ve expressed your views quite clearly here in the past to add no confusion.

I’m very happy to oblige our Company’s having less liabilities on their books.

We should strive as best we can to continue to assist them in that initiative in the future.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Kev. Between my frozen Pension and my 401k contributions I “should” have a decent enough retirement?

Of course if my Pension had continued my retirement income would have been dramatically more than it’s going to be depending on how long I live and workers should have fought for stronger funding Laws for Companies to take care of their workers first before their shareholders.

But hey F that. I’m portable baby. Love me that portability more than a good Steak Dinner every night.

 

[Kev3188]

I know you're being sarcastic, but going by what you've told me on here, you should have plenty- especially if you head further south, where the cost of living is lower.

And even if you (as in you specifically) don't like portability, I would hope you can appreciate that many others do- especially the people coming up behind us.

 

[GVPSPIAM]

https://www.pionline.com/article/20...oks-467-million-pension-contribution-for-2018

Can’t find each plan breakdown exactly, TWU portion is almost $2 billion underfunded.

As of Dec. 31, American Airlines had $11.4 billion in total defined benefit assets and $18.28 billion in benefit obligations for a funded status of 62.4%, up from 58.1% at the end of 2016. The 10-K did not provide a breakout of U.S. vs. international pension plans, but U.S. plan assets totaled $11.13 billion as of Sept. 30, according to Pensions & Investmentsdata.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

No. You only posted “ONE” Paragraph.

The rest you cherry picked what fit your agenda to convince your argument of a pending economic catastrophe to the fund.

Look again I highly doubt I’m going to be offered inclusion into your fund anyway ultimately but I really just hate the BS your trying to sell either # 1 because you desperately want out of it or # 2 your trying to help the Company get out from underneath it for the lowest possible price they can.

The Company offered 9%. 5% of that being a contribution and 4% more being a match. That is not industry leading. And not enough to let the Company out from under their cost for continuing with the IAMPF.

Weez... you are correct... it's all about the spin...

When one zooms out of the AA/LUS IMMNPF picture, and begins to focus on the "Multi-employer" aspects of the plan, we see another attrition issue with recruiting new members as the current administration's war on labor continues. Trump's tariffs will, and ARE causing Harley-Davidson to move overseas. This will cost thousands of IAM jobs to be lost! How many of those workers are in the IAMNPF? How many will start benefits early as they are forced to retire? How will that affect the financial health of the plan?

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2018...riff-trade-war-eu-motorcycle-labor/736325002/

On another front, Boeing --(the largest IAM membership employer) has sidestepped adding new members by moving production to the GOP dominated right to work state South Carolina, which denied the IAM an additional 3000 employees representation. This ultimately also denied the IAMNPF those future participants. In addition, Boeing is opening a manufacturing plant in China, which will deny the IAM hundreds, and eventually thousands of new members. How will that affect the financial health of the plan?

https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...h-carolina-vote-to-join-the-machinists-union/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/boeing-to-open-china-plant-this-year-2018-04-25

GOOD NEWS TIM... Boeing's plant in China just delivered it's first plane! MAGA!
https://qz.com/1497137/boeings-china-plant-delivers-first-jet-a-737-max-for-air-china/

I'm sure Tim is elated at this, as he obviously wants the IAM to FAIL!

 

[WeAAsles]

I know you're being sarcastic, but going by what you've told me on here, you should have plenty- especially if you head further south, where the cost of living is lower.

And even if you (as in you specifically) don't like portability, I would hope you can appreciate that many others do- especially the people coming up behind us.

I’m not being sarcastic. My frozen Pension will give me $1500 per month where if it had continued the payout was over $4000 per month. You do the Math how much I need in my 401K if I live another 25 years say after I retire?

Not to mention I was also contributing to my 401k so I would have had both. I could have been a Retirement Rock Star but now I’ll be lucky enough to be playing decent size Theaters instead.

Tell me again how many well paid Baggage Handlers are porting their asses out of our Company’s? My CC got his Law Degree a few years back and he’s still going to be on D42 with me this afternoon.

You were flim flam, bamboozled by Corporate America and you’ll never recognize or admit it.

Don’t hate the player though I guess, hate the game.

 

[WeAAsles]

https://www.pionline.com/article/20...oks-467-million-pension-contribution-for-2018

Can’t find each plan breakdown exactly, TWU portion is almost $2 billion underfunded.

As of Dec. 31, American Airlines had $11.4 billion in total defined benefit assets and $18.28 billion in benefit obligations for a funded status of 62.4%, up from 58.1% at the end of 2016. The 10-K did not provide a breakout of U.S. vs. international pension plans, but U.S. plan assets totaled $11.13 billion as of Sept. 30, according to Pensions & Investmentsdata.

Thanks GVP. I appreciate your facts.

 

[WeAAsles]

I’m not being sarcastic. My frozen Pension will give me $1500 per month where if it had continued the payout was over $4000 per month. You do the Math how much I need in my 401K if I live another 25 years say after I retire?

Not to mention I was also contributing to my 401k so I would have had both. I could have been a Retirement Rock Star but now I’ll be lucky enough to be playing decent size Theaters instead.

Tell me again how many well paid Baggage Handlers are porting their asses out of our Company’s? My CC got his Law Degree a few years back and he’s still going to be on D42 with me this afternoon.

You were flim flam, bamboozled by Corporate America and you’ll never recognize or admit it.

Don’t hate the player though I guess, hate the game.

Oh BTW my Pension was based on a 6.25% Multiplier of what I was making when it was frozen.

I can only imagine what my future (bye bye) payout would have been based on what I’m earning now?