American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

You do know there are only two ways for a contract to be imposed?

The company can impose at the end of a 30 day cooling off period or Congress legislates it an POTUS signs it into law.

Stop with the fear mongering. Your not fooling anyone.

You still havent answered the question, since further delay isnt going to put more pressure on the company, how do you expect to increase the offer? Members wanna know.
Should I repost Sitos letter to the United folks? He had ira gottleib write that any further delay could end up with less and that there is virtually no likelihood of gaining a position by delay.

 

[PIEDMONT784]

Should I repost Sitos letter to the United folks?

No-- what you should post is the IAM/TWU final offer from AA... we don't care about UA...
Please include the details on compensation, scope, medical, and retirement.

 

[Tim Nelson]

y

No-- what you should post is the IAM/TWU final offer from AA... we don't care about UA...
Please include the details on compensation, scope, medical, and retirement.

ou already have it

 

[WeAAsles]

You still havent answered the question, since further delay isnt going to put more pressure on the company, how do you expect to increase the offer? Members wanna know.
Should I repost Sitos letter to the United folks? He had ira gottleib write that any further delay could end up with less and that there is virtually no likelihood of gaining a position by delay.

First let me ask you: If there is ZERO leverage in JCBA Negotiations then why are any Airline Unions bothering to Negotiate at all?

Second from how I understand it the Company did not gain complete synergy from the cross utilization agreements that were signed.

Manning is still separate and in some locations that does create a particular headache where the operation is a closer mix of 50/50 LAA and LUS.

Maintenance programs are also not aligned and that’s an added cost to the Company.

Remember Tim the offer the Company gave does have an immediate overall cost rise due to especially the buyout costs but look already at all the AMT personnel that was just announced to be added. That’s going to be a cost savings to the Company for 9 years once the older workers transition out. And the Company doesn’t want to offer that buyout outside of JCBA’s, so that’s a dramatic lost savings for them as the older workforce lingers on.

Don’t forget the Scope savings they want over time either. That would get rid of a few thousand off the 30,000 Employees they have now.

A lot of economic benefits that the Company is currently unable to capitalize on.

Oh and they still have to keep up two payroll IT systems in Jetnet and Workbrain which one they want to shutdown and can’t.

Now of course you will ignore this as it doesn’t fit your agenda but hey I was only having my morning coffee and watching the Market news anyway so what the hey.

 

[WeAAsles]

y

ou already have it

We DO NOT. What we had was incomplete bullet points from the Company minus the fine print.

You claim to have the fine print and that’s what we want to see?

Should I go back and find that list of questions I had that you never answered?

 

[Tim Nelson]

First let me ask you: If there is ZERO leverage in JCBA Negotiations then why are any Airline Unions bothering to Negotiate at all?

Second from how I understand it the Company did not gain complete synergy from the cross utilization agreements that were signed.

Manning is still separate and in some locations that does create a particular headache where the operation is a closer mix of 50/50 LAA and LUS.

Maintenance programs are also not aligned and that’s an added cost to the Company.

Remember Tim the offer the Company gave does have an immediate overall cost rise due to especially the buyout costs but look already at all the AMT personnel that was just announced to be added. That’s going to be a cost savings to the Company for 9 years once the older workers transition out. And the Company doesn’t want to offer that buyout outside of JCBA’s, so that’s a dramatic lost savings for them as the older workforce lingers on.

Don’t forget the Scope savings they want over time either. That would get rid of a few thousand off the 30,000 Employees they have now.

A lot of economic benefits that the Company is currently unable to capitalize on.

Oh and they still have to keep up two payroll IT systems in Jetnet and Workbrain which one they want to shutdown and can’t.

Now of course you will ignore this as it doesn’t fit your agenda but hey I was only having my morning coffee and watching the Market news anyway so what the hey.

Airline unions have a lot of leverage in mergers due to merger leverage dealing with the equipment and coordinating flight crews with ground crews. However, when the Association went for the dues grab and gave cross utilization in line-item negotiatons (Man they dumb) , thereby tossing JCBA to the side, we lost all such leverage. Flight crews and ground crews are "Seamless" now. Things are not perfect but the company can live with the smaller tedious things. It does have an obligation to negotiate but made a $120 million per year cost positive fleet agreement, which it believes is 'good to go'. Not really concerned if the union wants to delay anything since the company locked in its leverage by offering 10% over United. The rest will be up to the union having its members vote, or if the union wants to kick the can to arbitration or a PEB then I'm certain that the company is ok with that. In the meantime, it will continue to save money off of you and the TWU who agreed to work under an awful Delta - 15% contract.

Carry on!

 

[Tim Nelson]

We DO NOT. What we had was incomplete bullet points from the Company minus the fine print.

You claim to have the fine print and that’s what we want to see?

Should I go back and find that list of questions I had that you never answered?

Who the hell is "We"?

BTW, they did get a complete offer. But for a moment, let's say you are right. Then after 4 years if these dopes couldn't get a complete offer then all of them should be fired. I could have gotten a complete offer in about 30 minutes and could get a complete comprehensive contract to vote on in about a day or two of discussions. It's really not that difficult.

 

[WeAAsles]

Airline unions have a lot of leverage in mergers due to merger leverage dealing with the equipment and coordinating flight crews with ground crews. However, when the Association went for the dues grab and gave cross utilization in line-item negotiatons (Man they dumb) , thereby tossing JCBA to the side, we lost all such leverage. Flight crews and ground crews are "Seamless" now. Things are not perfect but the company can live with the smaller tedious things. It does have an obligation to negotiate but made a $120 million per year cost positive fleet agreement, which it believes is 'good to go'. Not really concerned if the union wants to delay anything since the company locked in its leverage by offering 10% over United. The rest will be up to the union having its members vote, or if the union wants to kick the can to arbitration or a PEB then I'm certain that the company is ok with that. In the meantime, it will continue to save money off of you and the TWU who agreed to work under an awful Delta - 15% contract.

Carry on!

As I expected. You ignored everything just to be able to once again spit out your over and over again propaganda that pretty much no one is buying.

One thing I have to be honest I do find amazing about you and that’s how you can repeat the same thing so many times over and over unrelenting. It is incredibly amazing. POUND POUND POUND IT IN.

Who the hell is "We"?

BTW, they did get a complete offer. But for a moment, let's say you are right. Then after 4 years if these dopes couldn't get a complete offer then all of them should be fired. I could have gotten a complete offer in about 30 minutes and could get a complete comprehensive contract to vote on in about a day or two of discussions. It's really not that difficult.

Actually Harry and Sito had you beat because they could have had Contracts in 5 minutes. Jerry offered them to just take one Contract or the other and the Company would just give them the money.

They politely refused his offer.

 

[WeAAsles]

BTW Tim how’s things going on your “censored” Group page? Have you been gaining any traction there since you spend so much time over here instead?

I honestly haven’t gotten any updates on your activities in awhile so I assume your postings are mostly falling on deaf ears?

I gotta remember to ask someone to look in on you over there.

 

[WeAAsles]

Trying again before I leave for work.

Tim Nelson.

Can you tell me exactly what my rate of pay will be on date of signing if I excepted AA’s offer?

Exact numbers in Dollars and cents.

What is the percentage raise next year and each subsequent year that I will get?

1%

2%

3%

4%

?????????

 

[Tim Nelson]

BTW Tim how’s things going on your “censored” Group page? Have you been gaining any traction there since you spend so much time over here instead?

I honestly haven’t gotten any updates on your activities in awhile so I assume your postings are mostly falling on deaf ears?

I gotta remember to ask someone to look in on you over there.

the fb group avg 120 comments a day. Its uncensored other than decency rules.

 

[Tim Nelson]

As I expected. You ignored everything just to be able to once again spit out your over and over again propaganda that pretty much no one is buying.

One thing I have to be honest I do find amazing about you and that’s how you can repeat the same thing so many times over and over unrelenting. It is incredibly amazing. POUND POUND POUND IT IN.



Actually Harry and Sito had you beat because they could have had Contracts in 5 minutes. Jerry offered them to just take one Contract or the other and the Company would just give them the money.

They politely refused his offer.

because nothing else matters. Delaying will not put additional pressure on the company. By omission, you have acknowledged this as true.

 

[WeAAsles]

the fb group avg 120 comments a day. Its uncensored other than decency rules.

It’s censored and dead.

because nothing else matters. Delaying will not put additional pressure on the company. By omission, you have acknowledged this as true.

You can probably relax Tim. I suspect with the news that the Company wants to hire 250 new AMT’s that they’re about to put their “real” best offer on the table?

Then we can all merrily skip along.

 

[Tim Nelson]

It’s censored and dead.



You can probably relax Tim. I suspect with the news that the Company wants to hire 250 new AMT’s that they’re about to put their “real” best offer on the table?

Then we can all merrily skip along.

thats your opinion but as long as there remains a flow of comments, its lively enuf for me. We put a poll up 2 days ago asking if one wants to vote on whatever is on the table now, or if one wants to hold out and hope for more. Within 3 hours there were 250 votes. 70% wanted to vote now then assess where everything ends up.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Kev,
i believe they are going to become uncomfortable during the scope talks. They have no idea but their delay has now approach a downward grade over the top of the mountain. All downhill from here.