American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[WeAAsles]

It is what it is.

 

[ALUS78]

When the UA CEO offers to do an early contract opener you know the union screwed up royally.

Josh

Exactly

 

[Kev3188]

At one point early on in this JCBA journey I felt we needed to play catch-up with our counterparts at UAL and in many areas looked to gain where they are. I’ve passed that point over time that I feel we should now set the bar for them to follow.

This JCBA will be setting the bar for everyone, and IMO will also play heavily in whether or not DL decides to unionize.

The company would probably scream FOUL, and file legal proceedings against the association, if they attempted what the they themselves did, and negotiate outside of parameters. More than likely, they would spend more time and money in court, then it would cost to settle for a fair agreement!!

Operating with a fearful mindset is a large part of why Labor's in the shape it's in.

In you example, AA doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and if they were foolish enough to sue, the Association could immediately do the same.

I always wonder how much money all of those little pernicious agendas actually have cost us over the course of our careers?

Probably less than all the times we were outsmarted at the table...

 

[Talos]

I wish we all worked for a company that wasn’t run by pieces of chit who keep trying to put the screws to all of us despite making billions. F them

Really starting to agree with you about this. Lack of information has had us in the dark, but it appears this mgmt group wants to get over on their employees. The more information given to members, the more people will be able to judge the situation. I'm in DFW and from what I understand mgmt forced out the one guy who was a very good link from mgmt to the unions and had best intentions for all. Other dumb things are happening, and people are saying this place is starting to run like a regional airline. Your description of them sounds like it may be on the money.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You can't be serious, are you really saying new contract signed within 2 weeks? I'll take that bet. They won't even have an AIP in 2 weeks Tim, C'mon Man...

two weeks. The longer we can keep opium flowing on the twu side, the longer we can kick the can.

 

[Racer X]

We refused the co's first offer to stretch out our top out to first 9 then down to 7 years.
I hope you guys don't follow the others in the industry making this big mistake.



You know CB I agree with you that it is not that the co. is asking for even more, it's more like this asso kept the membership in the dark and kept the "real" information from the membership which gives more of the same confusion and division, and that is not good for the membership to get behind and support the NC. If the asso. would have told the membership from the get go what all the outsourcing, scope, job positions, station protections etc..., Even weez will be shocked at what the real ask are and how much it really will affect the membership as a whole. It is pathetically sad how much this membership is kept in the dark. And yes I do blame you and every single one one the NC and the executive cmte as well as the asso.

Some people always look for SOMEONE to blame.

 

[cltrat]

Really starting to agree with you about this. Lack of information has had us in the dark, but it appears this mgmt group wants to get over on their employees. The more information given to members, the more people will be able to judge the situation. I'm in DFW and from what I understand mgmt forced out the one guy who was a very good link from mgmt to the unions and had best intentions for all. Other dumb things are happening, and people are saying this place is starting to run like a regional airline. Your description of them sounds like it may be on the money.

Talos given how inept some of the managers are here it’s hard to feel great about those at the top. I tend to believe this airline is turning billions despite them not because of them.
Some that have been hired here last 3 or so years are just terrible and in some cases flat out incompetent..There’s one maybe 7 ,8 years of seniority was a terrible agent a worse cc and you guessed it manager it would be laughable if it didn’t pretty much suck when you have to deal with an idiot

 

[WeAAsles]

it doesnt assume they are stupid. Selfish but not stupid. I blame the iam because of United Ground. Protect those who are on the books but hose the unborn dues payers is anti union in that situation.

Same thing with the twu. In '84 they agreed to originate the B scale in this industry. In return, the company agreed to give the twu all envoy employees as twu members, automatically without a vote, in the hubs.

This negotiation is seemingly following that plan. We will all be treated first class but the unborn and B stations second class. Such is anti union but selfishness is king nowadays, so any contract will pass.

I’m not so sure the unborn will be treated exactly second class? Yea they might take a little longer to reach the promised land to TOS but at the money they’re going to be making is that really a tragedy?

B Stations on the other hand you already know my thoughts on that. No problemo por favor.

Be honest with me here Tim. That item is sitting on your desk for a John Hancock approval. Are you a YEA or NEA?

 

[WeAAsles]

Pretty much. I make good scratch as you say. It's all about me, right?

Honestly an IGM guy is not what you strike me as.

 

[WeAAsles]

Where I come from Weez to vote yourself out of a job is"stupid".But my point was more directed towards the ineffective IAM of which I am a member.Perhaps if something as little as an update was more informative our frustrations would be directed more towards the company and not the association.Heck cant they figure that out .So frustrated that it has spawned a card drive and with Tim's upcoming video a move towards dues objection by many.

First of all Al I doubt Tim became a dues objector, I doubt he will become a dues objector and I doubt he’ll make a video about it. I’m sure when the time comes Tim wants to have that JCBA vote counted. And it also doesn’t take an Engineering Degree to figure out how to go on agency fee, hand delivery.

And obviously I agree with you on the information coming from the “Official” source. Either they need to ratchet it up or stop doing them until there’s something worth saying. The retreads are honestly getting tiresome and people have begun to ignore them.

I like what Gary and Mark added to the picture though. That’s more like it.

 

[Buck]

two weeks. The longer we can keep opium flowing on the twu side, the longer we can kick the can.

The longest "opium flow" I have experienced has beenover 34 years now....

 

[Fleetoffoot]

Really? I’m sorry I must’ve missed the part of the updates where they said they’re still meeting with the company this week despite not making progress on scope

 

[gulfcoast1]

This JCBA will be setting the bar for everyone, and IMO will also play heavily in whether or not DL decides to unionize.



Operating with a fearful mindset is a large part of why Labor's in the shape it's in.

In you example, AA doesn't really have a leg to stand on, and if they were foolish enough to sue, the Association could immediately do the same.



Probably less than all the times we were outsmarted at the table...

That and having and anti-labor union party in control of the executive and legislative branches does not help either. Yet many people who complain about not having a deal here and corporate greed continue to strongly support it. If they did not have the protections of the RLA they would probably feel differently but as for now they are somewhat protected even though they vote against their work rules.

 

[Vortilon]

That and having and anti-labor union party in control of the executive and legislative branches does not help either. Yet many people who complain about not having a deal here and corporate greed continue to strongly support it. If they did not have the protections of the RLA they would probably feel differently but as for now they are somewhat protected even though they vote against their work rules.

Anti labor party? After 8 years of Bill Clinton, and another 8 years Hussein Obama, I see no difference in how labor is treated by politicians.

 

[gulfcoast1]

IAM CLT AGC Mark Baskett update.

Briefing for 8-12-18

NEGOTIATIONS: I want to start this briefing with a few personal comments. While this briefing originally started for just the clt IAM employees, I am glad to say that it has now grew to go out to the whole system. It is also shared by many of our brothers and sisters on the twu side.

So first let me say to those twu employees that THINK I don't feel your pain, you couldn't be more wrong. I am in my 36th year as a Piedmnont, Usair, Usairways, AA employee, that has been through 2 bankruptcies, and many concessions. So believe me, I along with many IAM employees do feel your pain working under a bankrupt contract minus the pay. I say minus the pay, because you, unlike myself along with many other IAM employees, we never could say while going through our 2 bankruptcies that we were top of the industry in pay. Yes you have made many sacrifices to keep this company going, and I assure you, those sacrifices by the IAMside of the negotiating team do not go ignored. We ( and I am speaking for the IAM negotiators ) all have many years with this company. We have been through the bankruptcies with this company more than once. We do feel your pain.

Yes I know many TWU employees are sore that there was no vote for the association. And also that the IAM didn't participate in your picketing. With all do respect to the TWU brothers and sisters, there was just a disagreement on if and when the info picketing should be done. Lets just say that it was not a decision that was made by the " association". Having said that, there were IAM employees that were present at the picketing. No there wasn't hundreds like the TWU, but there were a number of IAM employees at these pickets all wearing TWU shirts and holding TWU signs. Please keep in mind, that these info pickets were held in what I would call huge TWU stations, and very small IAM stations, so unless our members made themselves known ( which I know at least one that did ), then you wouldn't know that we were there. I am not saying this was the right thing to do, I am just stating the facts that we did have members there even though the " association " wasn't in agreement with the right time to hold the info picketing.

My point of this is, is to try and explain the IAM side of the issue from one Mark Basketts point of view. If we were to hold a info picket in CLT NC, the IAM would do so on behalf of the association, and we wouldn't expect one TWU person to show up, since it is a IAM stronghold. Any TWU persons that would show, we would simply look at as " icing on the cake" . We would never look at our info picket as not a success. We would expect to, and carry the torch so the speak, on behalf of us all.

Yes, if your TWU, I can understand your frustrations on being the majority workgroup. I can also understand your frustrations on not getting to vote on the " association". However, are we gong to sit and complain about these issues that are done and in the books, or are we going to move forward as a united group?

Now getting to the negotiations!! This past week while many people on social media are confused by the different updates from the association on the progress from one week to the next. Keep in mind, that the association updates can and are inclusive of the mechanics as well as fleet. So while last week, the update can say there was good progress made, they would be talking about the mechanics group. And while this week it seems to be negative and that no progress was made, they are talking mostly about the fleet group.

So I am gong to speak about the fleet group now, since that's what I am on the negotiating team for. First and foremost, regardless of what you are reading on any public forums, fleet is NOT done. Whether you choose to believe people that are not part of negotiations, are you can believe a person that is, its totally up to you. But I will say that I wouldn't take the time to send out these briefings to update everyone on the status of negotiations, if I didn't care for you to have the correct information. So you choose who you want to believe.

But fleet has several issues still to deal with. EX: Scope, insurance, wages, retirement, not to mention several smaller issues that are pending based on the bigger issues I just mentioned.

On the IAM side of things, the company's latest proposal wants to not only get rid of our insurance, but also take away jobs, specifically catering, and also some others like cargo. While again I feel and understand the TWU, s frustrations, the IAM side at this time in my opinion is looking at a cost negative contract for our members. So the issue is not that we don't feel for our TWU brothers and sisters, again we do, many of us have been there more than once. The issue is that we can not and WILL NOT agree to bring back a cost negative agreement to our members that we represent. I would assume that any TWU person, if on the negotiating team would feel the same way, if you were truly there for your members.

In our latest scope proposal to the company, as I have said before. We presented a proposal for fleet that preserved all the work that we are currently performing today in our 40 stations. I ask all of you that reads this, while the company is making a profit by letting us do this work today, if this is unreasonable??

In addition to what I mentioned in the above sentence, we also have presented on a separate list a number of stations that the company would in source, that once was occupied by either the IAM or TWU. These stations would be under different scope parameters than the 40 that we are in today.

So for all IAM employees out there that know they want to take your insurance, as well as the TWU employees. Not only will the company not agree to the work we are performing in our current 40 stations, they aren't even considering the additional stations, even though we are willing for these to be at a different scope proposal than our existing 40 that we have today.

BOTTOM LINE: The bottom line for everyone, no matter if your TWU or IAM reading this. The current proposal that is on the table while it might not be a cost negative proposal for the TWU since your in a bankrupt contract, and its very easy to make a cost neutral offer when your in bankruptcy. It is a cost negative for the IAM employees. What is the IAM negotiating members suppose to do?? Are we to accept a cost negative contract for our IAM members just to get the TWUmembers out of a bankrupt contract?? I am one person, speaking for myself, And again while I feel for all the TWU brothers and sisters out there, because I have lived and felt the pain and I have sacrificed as well as many of my brothers and sisters that I represent through more than one bankruptcy, I can not, and will not accept a cost negative contract for our members.

And in closing let me add, that its not only the IAM brothers and sisters that I am fighting for, its also to get the TWUbrothers and sisters what they truly deserve as well.

I don't know where we go from here. Will we get something good enough to put out in the next few weeks? Or will we go to section 6? Either way, I am confident that we will do whats best for our members as a whole.

EVERYONE HAVE A GOOD AND SAFE WEEK

MARK BASKETT

That was well-written and reasonable. It is a thorough explanation of why we do not have a TA yet. Unfortunately I doubt it will change the minds of too many people on either side. I think most people on both sides understand why we do not have an agreement. The IAM is working under a better contract and wants to keep it. The TWU is working under a worse contract, and has been since 2003, and wants to get out of it. The pay raises are great but when the IAM has been getting a better deal for a couple years now, the frustration continues to grow. I think both sides understand why the TWU is in a hurry and the IAM is not. Because of the Assocation , and regardless of how good the final outcome is perceived to be, the frustration from the TWU side is bad and prevalent enough to cause problems for years to come. If the IAM loses their medical, they will probably start to feel the same way back at the TWU, except maybe their PT employees. The only good outcome would be for the company to continue the IAM medical and give us a TA soon. That would be great but what are the odds that will happen. I do not see a good ending to this. I am not really that frustrated anymore. I am too tired for that. I do not want to be angry with the IAM at all. The IAM are my union brothers. I will just wait but the longer we wait the more the frustration will grow. We have all seen it here already.

Mr. Baskett comes across as a strong union supporter. Maybe he will change some minds on the TWU side about the contract but I don't know. Maybe he can get more of his station to support union politicians. Maybe this will have a good outcome. The longer this drags on the better the chances of more frustration from one side to the other.