American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[ALUS78]

there's a lot here:

- i always thought there was one special captain us air poster. the same guy that had to remind you of your wages prior to the merger. remember, you wouldn't answer my question about wages? you did eventually...and al had to correct you.

- if i was you, i'd worry about pit-cle flights. thank your lucky stars that laa cranks out first-class intl. travelers by the thousands on dozens of intl. flights out of jfk/mia/ord/dfw/lax. this is why you earn $30.85/hr today. it's not because you flew pit-cle or phl-ath.

on that note - with no merger, maybe laa would be under a bk contract for another 27 years? you'd still be at $19.95/hr with your super insurance.

i don't blame you for anything, well maybe your sh!t scarebus, er, airbus fleet. i said i sympathize. obviously, that's not enough for you. i blame my union for the seniority issue and i complimented your union, for looking out after it's members.

i never said you have to pay me for any improvements. i said the company earned more money in 2015 than it did in it's entire history of existence. i want to get compensated. i want all of us to get compensated. i said i was realistic about the insurance. your own former us air & america west execs. want to take that away from you, not laa guys. that isn't good enough for you.

can i argue that laa ord cranking out 4 lhrs, 2 chinas...etc..everyday, paid for your raise until we all got a raise in aug. of 2016? did you go to $24+/hr because phl-buf picked up?

you don't believe me, but i certainly believe you when you tell me that you pray the negotiations go on for another 6 years. why not 27 years, when laa would have emerged from the bk contract?

Dont be surprised if the Asia routes actually lose money.

 

[Racer X]

There is nothing to vote on so how can anyone be told to vote yes, as a matter of fact, there isn't even an official counter-proposal to the Association's counter from December.

The reason I think something would pass that is similar to what the airline has released is that of the general frustration being felt on the overall process.

There has been little to no communication on the process, and there hasn't been any communication as to how difficult this would end up being and the time it would take. Members are tired of being in the unknown, they don't say they will vote yes, but they do share they want to see what's on the table.

Last summer, they heard how the IAM wouldn't participate in the protests, I tried explaining the IAM's perspective, but it was just pushed to the side. The belief was there was great progress made, and we would be getting a deal "soon."

That "soon" didn't materialize, frustrations rose.

It also didn't help how it was brought up that the IAM was celebrating a paid holiday at double time, while we were working for straight-time. The information released by the Company has shown some that there is something to gain and they're eager to get there. Since we haven't had a period of trying to understand each other and explain each other's point of view, we are now in the midst of a certain amount of apathy.

This goes way back to the beginning when the TWU accepted then refused an invitation to reconcile the two CBA's. Then we have the lawsuit against the Association that slowed things down again. Then we had the criticism of the IAM for taking time to close-out their standalone. There was little communication of the IAM's willingness to close those negotiations out to try to make gains they felt they deserved going back to their 2005 BK. There was criticism that the IAM was stalling. ALL those things have an impact, and if you go back to these pages, I tried to explain those things only to be called names and have the material discounted.

I've shared those stories with anyone who asked and wanted to know how I felt. Unfortunately, those arguments above were louder and even championed by a few posters to this site who seem to go from one end to another depending on the current circumstances.

Some of us were willing to look ahead and anticipate what comes next, while others just thought everything was peachy. We should have had the conversations about the IAM medical several months ago, but all that was said was that it had survived 2 BK's and it was going to survive now. As it stands, the medical seems more imperiled today than it ever has, and that is unfortunate, but at the same time, it wasn't a subject that anyone wanted to breach until now.

The IAM finalized and ratified their stand alone in 07/14. The association first met at WWW in late 07/15 possibly early 08/15. I don’t understand Why there was “frustration” with IAM to get stand alone an entire year prior to first meeting.
Again,,, I’m not asking how you would vote. I fully recognize there isn’t a proposal. I’m simply asking what is your response to members that you say you feel would vote yes IF THIS WAS AN OFFICIAL PROPOSAL. Just asking what you say to them. That’s all.

 

[ALUS78]

I think it’s honestly Crema who being a little more reasonable to the conversation than you are Irish actually.

Chill out, pay attention and listen to the guy.

You do currently have some minefields the Company wants to put in front of you more than we have right now (In Fleet)

Dont understand creme saying how chitty LUS is, you saying LUS has more to lose, doesnt make sense

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh,
As a banker, how do you see our jcba unfolding? You think Alex is going to get laa under lus health care as he promised?
Also, do you think 700 will be utilized by Sito again to sell a jcba?

I hope the company is successful in enhancing our retirement but admittedly the iam is hardballing us for further concessions by trying to force us to stay in the awful pension.

 

[WeAAsles]

Dont understand creme saying how chitty LUS is, you saying LUS has more to lose, doesnt make sense

Actually trying my best to keep this out of the psychological Contest frame of mind but I think you have Crema confused with Bob who said that?

In Fleet of course you have more to lose in that online offer from the creeps. They want your Medical, year round Catering jobs and your IAMPF for what I feel is on the cheap.

For us except for Deicing which isn’t year round our Medical remains static, 401k would be improved and we get all the cream filling you’re mostly already enjoying.

Again I’m not saying that as a Contest Al cause I already wrapped my mind around us being one single group a long time ago and not two separate groups trying to win a ball game.

 

[ALUS78]

Actually trying my best to keep this out of the psychological Contest frame of mind but I think you have Crema confused with Bob who said that?

In Fleet of course you have more to lose in that online offer from the creeps. They want your Medical, year round Catering jobs and your IAMPF for what I feel is on the cheap.

For us except for Deicing which isn’t year round our Medical remains static, 401k would be improved and we get all the cream filling you’re mostly already enjoying.

Again I’m not saying that as a Contest Al cause I already wrapped my mind around us being one single group a long time ago and not two separate groups trying to win a ball game.

Yes a silly pissing match.

 

[robbedagain]

Dont know why 700 is consistently being brought up. That dude is most likely enjoying life outside the airline world. Second why is a banker so hellbent or affixiated with AA US TW the IAM Sito. Unless he has a fling w the man i dont see revelance why he on here slamming the unions sito airlines etc

 

[NYer]

The IAM finalized and ratified their stand alone in 07/14. The association first met at WWW in late 07/15 possibly early 08/15. I don’t understand Why there was “frustration” with IAM to get stand alone an entire year prior to first meeting.
Again,,, I’m not asking how you would vote. I fully recognize there isn’t a proposal. I’m simply asking what is your response to members that you say you feel would vote yes IF THIS WAS AN OFFICIAL PROPOSAL. Just asking what you say to them. That’s all.

We were told the two sides couldn't meet earlier because of the standalone negotiations and in waiting for the NMB to certify the Association. At the time, there was political infighting about the Association and why it was agreed to. Many felt there should have been an outright coup d'etat to have the TWU as the bargaining agent.

My conversations with anyone that wants to vote on what they heard from the Company is to advise them there is more to a CBA than bullet points and although some things look good, how good depends on the details.

Before the Steve Johnson incident, there seemed to be a feeling we were close to something and when I raised issued with some of the OT & PT language, on these pages, but was just told that we needed to compromise and meet in the middle. Now that the sentiment has turned and we are no longer close to a deal those same people want us to consider every detail.

That sort of flip-flopping has been detrimental to the entire process because there has been a lack of consistency in the message.

 

[ALUS78]

Josh,
As a banker, how do you see our jcba unfolding? You think Alex is going to get laa under lus health care as he promised?
Also, do you think 700 will be utilized by Sito again to sell a jcba?

I hope the company is successful in enhancing our retirement but admittedly the iam is hardballing us for further concessions by trying to force us to stay in the awful pension.

Tim its like NYer says they are going to sweeten the pot enough to get it to pass

 

[ALUS78]

Josh rules

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim its like NYer says they are going to sweeten the pot enough to get it to pass

If you look at the timeline, everything was pretty much agreed to, including blowing up or language and Sito giving up health care. Catering was removed earlier this year and Sito was fine with it according to fly. But a funny thing happened along the way, sito was informed that his election would not be certified and that the iam would have to enter negotiations with the dol over the improprieties martinez and sito took violating member rights from what i understand.
Immediately, Sito flipped like a pancake and couldn't sign any jcba. Jcba talks will be stalled until april 2019. Alex offered submission and they manufactured the justification for this stall by claiming to secure laa under lus health care.
The company did or will sweeten the deal by giving clt phl cargo. $33, and lus health another year. But that's it.

 

[bob@las-AA]

Bet on only 2-3 show up.

 

[Racer X]

View attachment 12761
Bet on only 2-3 show up.

Any bet you care to make on only 2 or 3 I’ll be glad to take that action.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Josh rules

He stays objective and is fairly knowledgeable on the history of this industry. One cool banker.

 

[Tim Nelson]

He must have documented proof.

As long as Mr blowhard and Alex can stretch things out for the iam by kicking the can to allegedly secure laa under current lus healthcare then its a win for lus.