American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

you are correct the association is not the problem. the problem is our associates are associates not partners. there is no, one for all and all for one attitude. the attitude is clearly we got/preserved ours and have no desire or care for you and yours. our associates managed to pen a deal that takes very good care of themselves (by coincidence their membership) the dues were preserved.. they managed to buy/threaten or coerce jim little into signing a very lopsided and self preserving agreement when we held all the numbers. for that it would be ironic if the court imposed a fine large enough to force the twu to cut back on benefits i.e. their generous retirement. you are correct the association is not the problem the problem is how it was implemented, how it continues to operate and take its membership for granted. it might be different next time (if we are stupid enough to allow it to remain) when or if we ever get a jcba. then we are on equal footing and it shouldn't be so dysfunctional. the best thing they could do is divide the membership let the twu take maintenance and related and the iam fleet service, or visa versa.

It's the same song every negotiations.

This time it's the Association that's the problem.

Last time it was Little, Videtich, Gless, Zimmerman, Judge Lane, Mediator Kane, Horowitz, Horton, Arpey, Fleet, the Base Mechanics...ect., ect.

 

[NYer]

So I wonder what the consensus is here. What are the realistic possibilities of having a vote on an agreement this year?
I personally feel the IAM is in control and will absolutely not allow a vote on anything that has the AA insurance and doesn’t include the IAMPF.
I think they believe these are drop dead issues and we as the members just have to trust them while we loose thousands each year this goes on which I think will be quite long.

Since we have heard nothing from the NMB about new dates I feel this is going nowhere as both sides seem content on where they stand.
What a sorry state we are in and it’s a shame since we work for a multi billion dollar company and can’t reap any benefits from them

They won't have a choice.

The Permanent Injunction and the upcoming Contempt Order will force the issue.

 

[NYer]

Yeah Yeah, that's what we keep hearing, "it's your fault"! As AMTs we have heard since day one about our headcount, and how it is some sort of an excuse as to why we are consistently among the lowest paid in the industry amongst our peers - with the absolute worst benefits going on 20 years now. Now, headcount is nice, but not worth losing pay and benefits for. That kind of concern comes from the international.

In 2003 we took it in the shorts, line everyone else in the industry. In 2008 to 2011, it was "Restore and More" with an airline in financial trouble. "They won't go bankrupt, that's just a scare tactic."

In 2011, they go bankrupt.

The Maintenance group was asked to vote down a bankruptcy contract because they would never abrogate.

The APA turns down their contract, the Company abrogates their contract.

The Association is certified

6 weeks later the two side get together to reconcile the two CBA's

Most Articles TA's (turns out with about 70% IAM language.)

The TWU Negotiating Committee (made up of Local Presidents) is replaced by "Executive Committee" (International appointees, except for one)

The biggest gripe during 2008-2011 negotiations was that the International was controlling negotiations because they had International Reps involved. Today, the International is singularly in control and not a peep about that.

The current lead negotiator is a former Maintenance President that has made Scope the number one item, with preserving jobs as a priority. Let him know how you feel.

 

[NYer]

and their is no evidence that the iam was a benefit to get the language and or an agreement. simply because we do not have an agreement and there is not one in sight. until it is forced for a vote there will not be one. the iam will not allow it. and the iam has the ability to keep saying no until they are forced to not say no.

that is the power of the indentured servant at the association we have no voice, no input.

You can have that opinion if you'd like, but they haven't been there most vocal about this being a fight. It didn't seem the TWU is just sitting around waiting for the IAM. They're being very vocal in not wanting to accept anything currently proposed.

If the IAM does have an agenda to stall, they haven't had the need to implement it because it seems the issued being talked about most heavily is TWU related.

 

[NYer]

The Association was a very ill conceived idea with suspect motives that did not benefit TWU members. The lack of a vote showed that the leaders behind the idea knew it wouldn't fly. I don't see how we would be worse off with a single union representing us. It just was not a fair arrangement.

A single union wouldn't take away the issues we face.

The IAM Members wouldn't just go away quietly when their Pension and Medical are at stake. Would you have just accepted if there was a vote and the IAM won? I doubt it.

So, we'd be in a representational battle and in negotiations. Hardly ideal.

Thinking we'd be almost done without the IAM in the way is flawed. The biggest variable isn't what the IAM wants, but what the Company wants. In seeing the TA's, it's easy to see how the Company preferred IAM language.

You'd think they'd get that from the TWU as a standalone? Probably not, right. So we'd be further behind than where we are.

 

[dfw gen]

I don't care what you guys do. I've wished you luck in your pursuit for a change. However, many of your gripes are just factually incorrect.

Isn't the lead negotiator a former TWU Maintenance President and AMFA supporter? You should be comfortable with the person you have in the room. A former Line Maintenance President. Not a Base President and not a Fleet President.

im comfortable with Gary in there or was, let me explain that. Gary has managed to alienate himself quite frankly the leadership of aa cant stand to be in the same room as him. thats kind of a detriment to where we are today. and that is because he wont give in to what they want. i can understand that. maybe its time for gary to step back and advise. the old saying absolute power absolutely corrupts may have a little play hereif your close to negotiations you know thats true. as far as the association my position on that is clear, in fact you are the only twu member that i am aware of that supports it, other then jim little and don videvitch.

 

[dfw gen]

They won't have a choice.

The Permanent Injunction and the upcoming Contempt Order will force the issue.

maybe maybe not. personally i hope it does force a vote. it accomplishes a few things it brings us up to parity an gives the iam a face saving way to blame the courts or the nmb on the outcome.

 

[NYer]

im comfortable with Gary in there or was, let me explain that. Gary has managed to alienate himself quite frankly the leadership of aa cant stand to be in the same room as him. thats kind of a detriment to where we are today. and that is because he wont give in to what they want. i can understand that. maybe its time for gary to step back and advise. the old saying absolute power absolutely corrupts may have a little play hereif your close to negotiations you know thats true. as far as the association my position on that is clear, in fact you are the only twu member that i am aware of that supports it, other then jim little and don videvitch.

I understand the consequences of but having it and I can also separate the concept with the currently flawed execution of it.

The idea is a benefit, the way it's being run isn't.

The alternative would have been far worse.

 

[NYer]

maybe maybe not. personally i hope it does force a vote. it accomplishes a few things it brings us up to parity an gives the iam a face saving way to blame the courts or the nmb on the outcome.

Even if a vote is brought up, I think you'll have to wait for parity since it's probable the Maintenance group votes it down.

 

[Vortilon]

In 2003 we took it in the shorts, line everyone else in the industry. In 2008 to 2011, it was "Restore and More" with an airline in financial trouble. "They won't go bankrupt, that's just a scare tactic."

In 2011, they go bankrupt.

The Maintenance group was asked to vote down a bankruptcy contract because they would never abrogate.

The APA turns down their contract, the Company abrogates their contract.

The Association is certified

6 weeks later the two side get together to reconcile the two CBA's

Most Articles TA's (turns out with about 70% IAM language.)

The TWU Negotiating Committee (made up of Local Presidents) is replaced by "Executive Committee" (International appointees, except for one)

The biggest gripe during 2008-2011 negotiations was that the International was controlling negotiations because they had International Reps involved. Today, the International is singularly in control and not a peep about that.

The current lead negotiator is a former Maintenance President that has made Scope the number one item, with preserving jobs as a priority. Let him know how you feel.

I have let him know how I feel, the guy has no clue what the wishes of the membership are! Most of us could care less about TWU headcount 20 years from now. In the meantime we are losing thousands with each passing month. Add to that, retro appears to be a non issue. Not that the company isn't to blame, this 6 year slow walk by the company - has already saved them enough to fund whatever the Association is asking for at this point.

 

[dfw gen]

You can have that opinion if you'd like, but they haven't been there most vocal about this being a fight. It didn't seem the TWU is just sitting around waiting for the IAM. They're being very vocal in not wanting to accept anything currently proposed.

If the IAM does have an agenda to stall, they haven't had the need to implement it because it seems the issued being talked about most heavily is TWU related.

There is no reason for them to be vocal. They have the upper hand and know it. Unfortunately the compsny thru a trump catd

 

[TWU informer]

The quickest way to a fair resolution is the NMB declare impasse and a 30 day cooling off period followed by a Presidential Emergency Board hearing.

Why the NMB doesn't use the law to get this resolved is beyond comprehension.

Resolution needs to come before Holiday Season
Arguing who is to blame, pointing fingers, and Union Rhetoric is getting us nowhere and not serving the best interest of everyone involved

Take the impasse to a Neutral 3 Member Panel


Want to do something productive?
Petition the NMB for an impasse declaration then followed by a letter to Trump to call the PEB

 

[NYer]

I have let him know how I feel, the guy has no clue what the wishes of the membership are! Most of us could care less about TWU headcount 20 years from now. In the meantime we are losing thousands with each passing month. Add to that, retro appears to be a non issue. Not that the company isn't to blame, this 6 year slow walk by the company - has already saved them enough to fund whatever the Association is asking for at this point.

Can only really control things for the length of the CBA anyway. Most of that happens in our negotiations is also dictated by what happens at other airlines. If they don't have the same priorities and fight for the same cause then it defeats the purpose.

As far as retro, we've technically been under contract and outside Section 6 prior to September 2018. Retro would be from 9/18 moving ahead, not 6 years.

 

[NYer]

There is no reason for them to be vocal. They have the upper hand and know it. Unfortunately the compsny thru a trump catd

The trump card was hand delivered. They couldn't have asked for a better present than what they were given.

Now they're taking full advantage of it.

 

[NYer]

The quickest way to a fair resolution is the NMB declare impasse and a 30 day cooling off period followed by a Presidential Emergency Board hearing.

Why the NMB doesn't use the law to get this resolved is beyond comprehension.

Resolution needs to come before Holiday Season
Arguing who is to blame, pointing fingers, and Union Rhetoric is getting us nowhere and not serving the best interest of everyone involved

Take the impasse to a Neutral 3 Member Panel


Want to do something productive?
Petition the NMB for an impasse declaration then followed by a letter to Trump to call the PEB

A Presidential Emergency Board? Aside from a contempt order, that would probably be the worst case scenario.