American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[dfw gen]

i think the association benefitted me and lus. Took care of our seniority and i vastly advanced with major pay and benefit gains when you and the twu team agreed to support our stand alone iam negotiations. But its pretty clear now that having just one union would have been more beneficial.
TWU members clearly got boned with this. There isnt any evidence to support the thought that they have benefitted with the association.

this is probably the one and only true statement from ten minute that i have read. i cant disagree with any part of it at all.

 

[dfw gen]

I can see it my own hand.

The Association isn't the problem. We'd be worse off and further behind if it was a standalone union negotiating.

Your mind is made up so I don't think you'll have the ability to see things in any prism that isn't your own.

Most of the TA's are IAM language so we wouldn't even have the TA's we have today because a standalone would never agree to that.

The IAM would be working feverishly to get cards signed and maybe we'd have a bit by now, which would have further pushed back negotiations.

To think that we'd be done by now, like if the Company didn't exist and would agree to TWU language no questions asked is really ludicrous. Especially coming off negotiations that spanned from 2007 to 2012.

I get you don't like the TWU, but you need to have better arguments. Maybe that's reason all the drives haven't amounted to anything and you're still TWU.

you are correct the association is not the problem. the problem is our associates are associates not partners. there is no, one for all and all for one attitude. the attitude is clearly we got/preserved ours and have no desire or care for you and yours. our associates managed to pen a deal that takes very good care of themselves (by coincidence their membership) the dues were preserved.. they managed to buy/threaten or coerce jim little into signing a very lopsided and self preserving agreement when we held all the numbers. for that it would be ironic if the court imposed a fine large enough to force the twu to cut back on benefits i.e. their generous retirement. you are correct the association is not the problem the problem is how it was implemented, how it continues to operate and take its membership for granted. it might be different next time (if we are stupid enough to allow it to remain) when or if we ever get a jcba. then we are on equal footing and it shouldn't be so dysfunctional. the best thing they could do is divide the membership let the twu take maintenance and related and the iam fleet service, or visa versa.

 

[dfw gen]

and their is no evidence that the iam was a benefit to get the language and or an agreement. simply because we do not have an agreement and there is not one in sight. until it is forced for a vote there will not be one. the iam will not allow it. and the iam has the ability to keep saying no until they are forced to not say no.

that is the power of the indentured servant at the association we have no voice, no input.

 

[Vortilon]

You have had exclusively mechanics negotiate your CBA's for quite some time. It's getting old to have your perceived failures being blamed on everyone under the sun.

Mechanics negotiating for mechanics...seize the day.

That's the narrative you want to push? Good luck with that. We all know how the pie is divided up communist style in negotiations. No AMT would have agreed to letting stores keep six weeks of vacation, and AMTs only 5. Or, the half pay for 2 days when calling in sick - that was not a choice an AMT would make. Then, not having snap backs included in the agreement, that's a total bone head move. Those are all decisions made above the level of any AMTs on the negotiating committee.

 

[Talos]

I can see it my own hand.

The Association isn't the problem. We'd be worse off and further behind if it was a standalone union negotiating.

Your mind is made up so I don't think you'll have the ability to see things in any prism that isn't your own.

Most of the TA's are IAM language so we wouldn't even have the TA's we have today because a standalone would never agree to that.

The IAM would be working feverishly to get cards signed and maybe we'd have a bit by now, which would have further pushed back negotiations.

To think that we'd be done by now, like if the Company didn't exist and would agree to TWU language no questions asked is really ludicrous. Especially coming off negotiations that spanned from 2007 to 2012.

I get you don't like the TWU, but you need to have better arguments. Maybe that's reason all the drives haven't amounted to anything and you're still TWU.

The Association was a very ill conceived idea with suspect motives that did not benefit TWU members. The lack of a vote showed that the leaders behind the idea knew it wouldn't fly. I don't see how we would be worse off with a single union representing us. It just was not a fair arrangement.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

They have money to pay 22 million in fines but No money for their employees during contract negotiations.
Check this out: American to pay $22M to settle allegations of falsified mail delivery times https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2019/08/20/american-airlines-mail.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

 

[Tim Nelson]

How will any fines be carried out since the TWU represents 65% of all members?
I can see the iam wanting the twu to pay millions more. Since the association is party to the case, it has zero money.
The twu treasury is depleted and only has about $30 million.
Since the union literally went for broke by appealing, it will be hard to vision the twu being around. Most likely, it will have to be absorbed by the iam.

 

[V.O. Reason]

They have money to pay 22 million in fines but No money for their employees during contract negotiations.
Check this out: American to pay $22M to settle allegations of falsified mail delivery times https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2019/08/20/american-airlines-mail.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo

Well I doubt the company wanted to pay these fines I would suspect this is a product of CSMs allowing this to happen knowing mail is being left off flights that could have been loaded instead just sits on the gate

 

[NYer]

Either in 03 are 12 there was a fleet service president who voted to bring back the ta. For maintenance .

In 2011, the Fleet group voted to bring their agreement for a vote. The Maintenance group had an agreement and voted it down in 2010. In 2012, the Fleet group was the first with a ratified BK agreement. Peterson & Co. were urging the Maintenance guys to vote down their separate agreement.

Separate negotiating committee's, separate ratification votes.

 

[NYer]

Plus the problem is on the international side. We get no vote who is on the international that’s done by local 100. Why would a subway linemen be in charge with the air transportation international.

The Maintenance guys didn't like when we had an AA airline guy in charge as the Int'l President. The Maintenance Locals lobbied and voted for a President from the Transit Division. They again supported and voted for a different Transit Division representative.

Self inflicted.

They didn't like when they had mechanics heading the negotiations.

 

[NYer]

Then the twu decides what group gets what. Like in maintenance we lost 4 hours of pay on sick time each occurrence was the first 2 days in 03. .

50% on first SK day was proposed to everyone. The Fleet group decided to make changes in that and cuts elsewhere to preserve the 100% in SK pay on first day. Apparently, the maintenance group decided other things were more important.

That was a choice.

 

[NYer]

And as a fleet service clerk why do you care what we do. You need to worry about you getting your 40 stations that maintenance is having to wait for y’all to get. And how do us as mechanics know who’s negotiating since there is no list and the updates are never signed.the twu has always been against mechanics and it always will be. They do enough to keep enough people from signing cards. Because they buy into the lies that you twu gurus are good at spreading.

I don't care what you guys do. I've wished you luck in your pursuit for a change. However, many of your gripes are just factually incorrect.

Isn't the lead negotiator a former TWU Maintenance President and AMFA supporter? You should be comfortable with the person you have in the room. A former Line Maintenance President. Not a Base President and not a Fleet President.

 

[NYer]

I have a bridge for sale NYer. You interested?

You've been selling that same bridge for many years. Seems you're even sold to the same people on multiple occasions.

 

[V.O. Reason]

So I wonder what the consensus is here. What are the realistic possibilities of having a vote on an agreement this year?
I personally feel the IAM is in control and will absolutely not allow a vote on anything that has the AA insurance and doesn’t include the IAMPF.
I think they believe these are drop dead issues and we as the members just have to trust them while we loose thousands each year this goes on which I think will be quite long.

Since we have heard nothing from the NMB about new dates I feel this is going nowhere as both sides seem content on where they stand.
What a sorry state we are in and it’s a shame since we work for a multi billion dollar company and can’t reap any benefits from them

 

[Vortilon]

50% on first SK day was proposed to everyone. The Fleet group decided to make changes in that and cuts elsewhere to preserve the 100% in SK pay on first day. Apparently, the maintenance group decided other things were more important.

That was a choice.

Yeah Yeah, that's what we keep hearing, "it's your fault"! As AMTs we have heard since day one about our headcount, and how it is some sort of an excuse as to why we are consistently among the lowest paid in the industry amongst our peers - with the absolute worst benefits going on 20 years now. Now, headcount is nice, but not worth losing pay and benefits for. That kind of concern comes from the international.