American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[NYer]

you're entitled to that opinion..

united, 3rd largest/4th most profitable airline - at the time...got the ball rolling to $30/hr for fleet/ramp.

that tells me that being #1 has nothing to do with anything. southwest isn't the largest nor most profitable...what do they pay their fleet and AMTs?

as far as looking into the other backyards...it's allowed, in our industry.

Those airlines have many less employees, especially SWA, which means their expenses are lower while their revenue is higher because of their size.

The Company wants to make cuts with about $45B in revenue. What do you think they'd want to do with $30B or $35B in revenue? I can tell it wouldn't be where we're headed, even with the negatives.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

aa filed prior to the shale oil revolution. in 2008, oil hit $140/bbl...over $170/bbl in today's money. aa filed the very next year. today, brent is under $60/bbl. what is that in 2008 money? $50/bbl??

aa's plan while in bk didn't excite anyone.

things turned. the economy has recovered and thrived, everyone is flying and oil is low. i don't believe aa would have stood pat...maybe jet blue or virgin america acquisition? maybe an eventual merger with us air? alaska?

i wouldn't input 2008-2009 realities into a 2019 hypothesis.

 

[Tim Nelson]

you're entitled to that opinion..

united, 3rd largest/4th most profitable airline - at the time...got the ball rolling to $30/hr for fleet/ramp.

that tells me that being #1 has nothing to do with anything. southwest isn't the largest nor most profitable...what do they pay their fleet and AMTs?

as far as looking into the other backyards...it's allowed, in our industry.

United IAM never got $30 until Delta gave a big wage package.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

it was united who got the ball rolling..delta can beat any top wage at any moment. the unionized workers at other airlines are restricted by contracts.

i didn't say united was first to $30/hr..i said they got the ball rolling.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Your right, people do look at ILC differently. Myself views ILC as comparing contract to contract from say other airlines. I like to compare the overall contract not just tid bits here and there. In my mind UPS has the almighty contract, not only in pay, but, also with the bennies, medical, retirement, vac, hol., etc...
Now of course AA cost of the contract will be way-way more than ours was or is, just due to the numbers of the workgroups. Since this asso represents what--7 different groups covering, what--15K-20K people? Of course their cost will be much greater, that's a no brainer.

Nah, the AA contract cost is also higher, per capita. Actually, blows the WN contract away in regards to, well, most everything. True, MX will lose scope, but it still crushes your pathetic scope. Dude, you guys only have like 2,000 mechanics. Granted, you could care less about future employees but it still sucks.
Toss in the job protections, and it's a goodie. No union, i.e., TWU, IAM, Association, Ladies Garment workers, etc would jump to sign the Gosh Awful contract at Southwest unless they wanted 10,000 workers contracted out. You know that so stop being dishonest.

As far as fleet, there will be simply no comparison between the company proposal and any other airline contract.

 

[Tim Nelson]

it was united who got the ball rolling..delta can beat any top wage at any moment. the unionized workers at other airlines are restricted by contracts.

i didn't say united was first to $30/hr..i said they got the ball rolling.

Got the ball rolling downhill is what they got. Carefully, read the anti worker United contract, at least for Fleet. Not sure about MX.

 

[1AA]

LAA did not bail out LUS. LAA was in CH11. LUS brought LAA n took them.out of ch11. DP went behind our backs to garner support from LAA unions n it was a success while we waited n waited for contract

You need to watch the townhall meeting in PHL just after the merger was completed. Parker tells a different story.

Parker said that USAIR was about to go CHAP 7. USAIR needed a partner to survive. He cut a deal with the banks with no collateral to lend money to USAIR to finance the merger. It was a high risk loan.
It worked. Watch the video and get back to us when you do.

 

[robbedagain]

That was just before HP merger. Following the HP merger US was making profits

 

[1AA]

That was just before HP merger. Following the HP merger US was making profits

You obviously did not watch the video. A USAIR employee made a comment that we bought AA. Parker corrected him with the brief explanation I posted. Watch the video. It's on Jetnet somewhere in the archives. USAIR needed to expand because the playing field was getting bigger. Delta and UAL wanted nothing to do with USAIR and Parker. AA was the only logical choice.

Ask yourself this question.
With USAIR only choice left was Chapt 7. Why take the AA name?

Hint: I keep hearing that another BK is possible.

 

[bigjets]

And with the merger AA came out of CH11. Cant rewrite history. But without the merger where would AA be at today? US would be most likely profitable but not on the scale it is with the merger

CLT the second most profitable hub for AA. Hard to argue with the fact that new AA is better positioned then LUS and LAA.

 

[ALUS78]

Without LAA bailing out LUS you would have[/QUOTE
Lus was having record profits going into the merger so going out of business might have taken while, anyhow water under the bridge, move on

 

[ALUS78]

You obviously did not watch the video. A USAIR employee made a comment that we bought AA. Parker corrected him with the brief explanation I posted. Watch the video. It's on Jetnet somewhere in the archives. USAIR needed to expand because the playing field was getting bigger. Delta and UAL wanted nothing to do with USAIR and Parker. AA was the only logical choice.

Ask yourself this question.
With USAIR only choice left was Chapt 7. Why take the AA name?

Hint: I keep hearing that another BK is possible.

Another bankruptcy? got any money you want to bet????

 

[ALUS78]

it was united who got the ball rolling..delta can beat any top wage at any moment. the unionized workers at other airlines are restricted by contracts.

i didn't say united was first to $30/hr..i said they got the ball rolling.

The first usually does get the ball rolling in my world at least

 

[ALUS78]

Nah, the AA contract cost is also higher, per capita. Actually, blows the WN contract away in regards to, well, most everything. True, MX will lose scope, but it still crushes your pathetic scope. Dude, you guys only have like 2,000 mechanics. Granted, you could care less about future employees but it still sucks.
Toss in the job protections, and it's a goodie. No union, i.e., TWU, IAM, Association, Ladies Garment workers, etc would jump to sign the Gosh Awful contract at Southwest unless they wanted 10,000 workers contracted out. You know that so stop being dishonest.

As far as fleet, there will be simply no comparison between the company proposal and any other airline contract.

That's why Parker said take any other contract and we'll sign it.Why dont these guys understand.

 

[1AA]

Another bankruptcy? got any money you want to bet????

$5 billion?