American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[737823]

I will say it again, if the company wants to outsource catering, give us cargo in those stations. The LAA side keeps cargo and most of the deicing work, and LUS loses catering period. Can't believe that everyone can't clearly see the issue with that.

Why should anyone care about the plight of catering? In the 2005 LUS concessions that 700 boasts about him and Roabilly agreed catering jobs could have been absorbed on the ramp yet they threw small stations out for a privileged few to keep their cushy jobs at CLT with lots of downtime between flights. The catering classification obviously was a-okay throwing small stations out.

Josh

 

[bigjets]

PHX MX is a NO VOTE.

Not a huge surprise, LUS already enjoys a contract that legacy airline mechs already enjoy except for LAA.

The joys of being represented by 2 unions where those unions already gave up the biggest bargaining chip we had, cross utilization. So we actually have an A scale and a B scale. Not to mention AA put us on the back burners while they deal with APA and APFA for another contract.

 

[bigjets]

Are you serious?

If working people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday then why are UNION memberships on a steady decline?

How can you say with a straight face that people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday when even the people that already have them express discontent?

I find most people are, in fact, very anti UNION. At least where I live.

Most people here support Right to Work. The philosophy being if a UNION is effective people will support it. UNIONs here cannot simply collect money from the workers as a condition of employment (outside of the RLA that is). I happen to agree with that philosophy. After all I put my application in at American Airlines not the TWU.

That being said American Airlines provides good paying jobs and good benefits to employees with no or minimal educational requirements. I would say that reflects TWU effectiveness. That being said pay and benefits in the airline industry (not just American Airlines) has been in decline for a long time. Employees have lost a lot of buying power. I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. I don't see how any person that takes pride in their occupation would find that acceptable. That in my opinion was the beginning of the end for UNIONs. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that. Frankly, I don't see that happening any time soon. That is why I am so disenfranchised with UNIONs. I agree with the philosophy of a UNION but not the modern implementation.

I think many people feel as I do and that is why you see so many people on this forum so unhappy with the Association.

Well said.

 

[P. REZ]

Are you serious?

If working people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday then why are UNION memberships on a steady decline?

How can you say with a straight face that people realize they need UNIONs as much today as yesterday when even the people that already have them express discontent?

I find most people are, in fact, very anti UNION. At least where I live.

Most people here support Right to Work. The philosophy being if a UNION is effective people will support it. UNIONs here cannot simply collect money from the workers as a condition of employment (outside of the RLA that is). I happen to agree with that philosophy. After all I put my application in at American Airlines not the TWU.

That being said American Airlines provides good paying jobs and good benefits to employees with no or minimal educational requirements. I would say that reflects TWU effectiveness. That being said pay and benefits in the airline industry (not just American Airlines) has been in decline for a long time. Employees have lost a lot of buying power. I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. I don't see how any person that takes pride in their occupation would find that acceptable. That in my opinion was the beginning of the end for UNIONs. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that. Frankly, I don't see that happening any time soon. That is why I am so disenfranchised with UNIONs. I agree with the philosophy of a UNION but not the modern implementation.

I think many people feel as I do and that is why you see so many people on this forum so unhappy with the Association.

LOL,


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...s_hold_steady_despite_public_employee_strikes

https://splinternews.com/this-just-in-people-love-unions-1828714176

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majority-of-americans-support-labor-unions-as-fewer-belong-to-one/

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I attribute this to the UNIONs at the legacy airlines supporting high headcount over maintaining pay and benefits. They basically settled for less for those they represent in exchange for more members to draw dues from. That is when they lost their way, when the membership succumbed to maintaining high headcount over compensation as a result of UNION fear campaigns.

Adapting to the culture by embracing technology is not going to fix a UNION accepting less for the people they represent to maximize dues. Only the memberships refusal to succumb to propaganda and fear tactics will do that.

That is the general consensus although that is wrong. Fleet service is very dumb and is in panic mode over the company protections, which are incredible. The station and status protection protects everyone in DCA. That said, I think it may be better to scrap the protections and add them to wages and benefits since most fleet service don't know how to read and it just causes confusion. Status protection doesn't help me as I have tons of seniority but the junior people don't know how to read and don't want the protections, so why bother with them? Scrap the protections because many fleet service don't understand protections, including you, don't know how to read. Just forget about the protections and put those millions into us high seniority pockets. More vacation, more wage, we want it all. If the junior people don't want protections, give the extra millions to us!

Are you guys seeing this?

Tim don't you get tired or trampling around these forums in clown shoes and a red nose?

I mean F me... how perfect is your timing?

Not only is he playing his part as a cog in the fear machine, but he is attempting to shame and condition people into compliance.

Here is your modern UNION at work ladies and gentlemen.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

LOL,


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...s_hold_steady_despite_public_employee_strikes

https://splinternews.com/this-just-in-people-love-unions-1828714176

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/majority-of-americans-support-labor-unions-as-fewer-belong-to-one/

Don't you find it odd that every single link you posted leads to a story based off of polls instead of hard verifiable facts?

Let that sink in.

I have stated many times I do not put any credence in news stories based on polls.

I have seen too many instances where conditions were manipulated to produce targeted results.

It amazes me how many people accept polls as a statistical fact without verifying how the information was accumulated.

If you want to base your beliefs on the result of polls spoon fed to you by the media then be my guest but don't present them to me as irrefutable proof because from my point of view the only thing it proves is you blindly accept information.

 

[bigjets]

Don't you find it odd that every single link you posted leads to a story based off of polls instead of hard verifiable facts?

Let that sink in.

I have stated many times I do not put any credence in news stories based on polls.

I have seen too many instances where conditions were manipulated to produce targeted results.

It amazes me how many people accept polls as a statistical fact without verifying how the information was accumulated.

If you want to base your beliefs on the result of polls spoon fed to you by the media then be my guest but don't present them to me as irrefutable proof because from my point of view the only thing it proves is you blindly accept information.

Polls are great just ask President Hillary Clinton

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/vw-workers-tenn-plant-reject-second-uaw-organizing-bid

 

[P. REZ]

Don't you find it odd that every single link you posted leads to a story based off of polls instead of hard verifiable facts?

Let that sink in.

I have stated many times I do not put any credence in news stories based on polls.

I have seen too many instances where conditions were manipulated to produce targeted results.

It amazes me how many people accept polls as a statistical fact without verifying how the information was accumulated.

If you want to base your beliefs on the result of polls spoon fed to you by the media then be my guest but don't present them to me as irrefutable proof because from my point of view the only thing it proves is you blindly accept information.

Polls are great just ask President Hillary Clinton

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/vw-workers-tenn-plant-reject-second-uaw-organizing-bid

Lol,

Polls always have an error range of +-3 to 5%. Still favor Unions factoring that into the equation. Lol

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The media uses polls as a psychological tool to make the recipient of the information feel he must think a certain way to be in compliance with the masses.

They prey on the basic human need for people to "fit in".

The secondary function is to reinforce information that the reader finds agreeable without the inconvenience of having to provide verifiable facts. It is very effective. Just ask P. REZ.

Honestly P. REZ you used an online search engine using keywords and found 3 sites to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear using "polls" as the only validation. I mean....... you have to laugh. You would think even a 5 year old kid would recognize when he was being led around by the nose.

Maybe it's not your fault your so dense. Maybe that is just the new normal. The result of a generation sitting in front of a TV being socially engineered by a propaganda spewing media pushing an agenda.

I pity you. I pity that you are so conditioned you don't even recognize you were being taken on a ride of your own making to reinforce ideas someone else put in your head. It really is sad.

 

[bigjets]

The media uses polls as a psychological tool to make the recipient of the information feel he must think a certain way to be in compliance with the masses.

They prey on the basic human need for people to "fit in".

The secondary function is to reinforce information that the reader finds agreeable without the inconvenience of having to provide verifiable facts. It is very effective. Just ask P. REZ.

Honestly P. REZ you used an online search engine using keywords and found 3 sites to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear using "polls" as the only validation. I mean....... you have to laugh. You would think even a 5 year old kid would recognize when he was being led around by the nose.

Maybe it's not your fault your so dense. Maybe that is just the new normal. The result of a generation sitting in front of a TV being socially engineered by a propaganda spewing media pushing an agenda.

I pity you. I pity that you are so conditioned you don't even recognize you were being taken on a ride of your own making to reinforce ideas someone else put in your head. It really is sad.

I wonder if the polling questions were asked,

should union members have the right to vote for which union represents them during a merger when there are two different unions, or should entities that don’t work at said merged airlines just decide to form an association with no input from members?

Should union members get the right to vote for union dues increases?

Is it smart to have 10 different work groups from two unions negotiate one contract?

Do you know that if a member doesn’t pay union dues he will be fired, thereby giving a false number about union support within union?

Ask these questions and I wonder what the polls would show about unions.

 

[P. REZ]

The media uses polls as a psychological tool to make the recipient of the information feel he must think a certain way to be in compliance with the masses.

They prey on the basic human need for people to "fit in".

The secondary function is to reinforce information that the reader finds agreeable without the inconvenience of having to provide verifiable facts. It is very effective. Just ask P. REZ.

Honestly P. REZ you used an online search engine using keywords and found 3 sites to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear using "polls" as the only validation. I mean....... you have to laugh. You would think even a 5 year old kid would recognize when he was being led around by the nose.

Maybe it's not your fault your so dense. Maybe that is just the new normal. The result of a generation sitting in front of a TV being socially engineered by a propaganda spewing media pushing an agenda.

I pity you. I pity that you are so conditioned you don't even recognize you were being taken on a ride of your own making to reinforce ideas someone else put in your head. It really is sad.

Take your anti Union BS somewhere else. I notice you have zero stats or facts to back up your anti Union rant. Lol

 

[swamt]

And here comes the union supporters. Still pathetic and sad.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Take your anti Union BS somewhere else. I notice you have zero stats or facts to back up your anti Union rant. Lol

You certainly have a skill for self delusion.

Just can't handle the fact you were duped can you? The fact I pointed it out to you and you still can't see it is comical.

Don't you find it odd that every single link you posted leads to a story based off of polls instead of hard verifiable facts?

Honestly P. REZ you used an online search engine using keywords and found 3 sites to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear using "polls" as the only validation.

I pity that you are so conditioned you don't even recognize you were being taken on a ride of your own making to reinforce ideas someone else put in your head.

Unlike you I can validate everything I said. Feel free to itemize and challenge me on anything you like.

I am not anti UNION, I am anti manipulation. Again, I support the ideal of a UNION, just not the modern implementation.

Are you going to deny that the UNION focuses more on keeping headcount up then securing higher pay and lower cost benefits?

UNIONs are in decline. That is a cold hard fact that can be validated by the steady decline in UNION membership. All your "polls" are not going to change that FACT. Some areas find value in Right to Work. That is why it keeps getting voted in. It is my OPINION that dues to a UNION as a condition of employment is wrong and UNIONs should have to earn their keep. It is my OPINION that if people see the value and benefit of a UNION they WILL support it. That is not anti UNION that is pro CHOICE.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

And here comes the union supporters. Still pathetic and sad.

There is nothing wrong with supporting the UNION.

However there are some serious issues that need to be addressed.

You can't keep losing buying power, losing benefits (like vacation and pension) and paying increased cost in benefits (as a percentage) contract after contract just to maintain headcount (which your not even doing anyway).

Then there is the fact the UNION has become a vehicle of propaganda for the Democrats and in some cases a money laundering tool (Amtrak). The UNION needs to worry less about who I vote for and more about enforcing the contract (they can do that brother).

 

[conehead777]

Take your anti Union BS somewhere else. I notice you have zero stats or facts to back up your anti Union rant. Lol

Coming from the association who only cares about grandkids getting hired on. Not the current members. Want release your full list of proposals want even sign your updates the association is pathetic. I’m going to amfanational.org print out a card send it in I request the rest of the AA amts do and kick the association in the ass pun intended