American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[1986Mekanic]

Well, as we all know, under rla after a 30 cooling the company is free to impose and the union is free to engage in self help. Is it possible Mr Samuelsen is aware of this? Hence, the verbose threats? And I'd so, and if we all come to that, wouldnt it be best for all of us to engage the company as our representatives ask? Or, are there those among us willing to become scabs.

 

[MetalMover]

Well, as we all know, under rla after a 30 cooling the company is free to impose and the union is free to engage in self help. Is it possible Mr Samuelsen is aware of this? Hence, the verbose threats? And I'd so, and if we all come to that, wouldnt it be best for all of us to engage the company as our representatives ask? Or, are there those among us willing to become scabs.

We would be free to engage in self help yes. But keep in mind that when you go on strike at the end of the 30 day cooling off period, the company is free to impose its workrules and replace striking workers. Big mouth should mention that to the troops.
But as far as the process goes, my advice would be have a nice chat with the Eastern guys. The ones I know were full of piss and vinegar when they struck. Now they see things differently when they should be home retired and not still driving to the airport five days a week.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

After reading the back and forth here I thought it was worth throwing something out here....

All the posts with quoted/cited material on the RLA mediation process, have left out a critical point.

After a PEB is called and issues a report, it isn't just "the company can impose, and the union engage self help"

The third (and most likely IMHO) possibility is that congress will act.

From nmb.gov

Under Section 10 of the RLA, if a dispute substantially threatens essential transportation in any section of the country, the NMB notifies the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If so created, the PEB has 30 days in which to investigate the dispute and report to the President during which the status-quo remains in effect. The parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, negotiate their own agreement, or, after 30 days from the issuance of the PEB report to the President exercise Self Help, unless Congress takes action.

While no airline/union dispute has risen to the level of congressional action thus far, several railroads have indeed had their disputes resolved by congress, and as AA is the nations largest carrier, it is a VERY real possibility that you guys may become the first Airline to have your contract settled by congress should mediation prove futile.

 

[MetalMover]

After reading the back and forth here I thought it was worth throwing something out here....

All the posts with quoted/cited material on the RLA mediation process, have left out a critical point.

After a PEB is called and issues a report, it isn't just "the company can impose, and the union engage self help"

The third (and most likely IMHO) possibility is that congress will act.

From nmb.gov

Under Section 10 of the RLA, if a dispute substantially threatens essential transportation in any section of the country, the NMB notifies the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If so created, the PEB has 30 days in which to investigate the dispute and report to the President during which the status-quo remains in effect. The parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, negotiate their own agreement, or, after 30 days from the issuance of the PEB report to the President exercise Self Help, unless Congress takes action.

While no airline/union dispute has risen to the level of congressional action thus far, several railroads have indeed had their disputes resolved by congress, and as AA is the nations largest carrier, it is a VERY real possibility that you guys may become the first Airline to have your contract settled by congress should mediation prove futile.

I agree. Good point. And it is a real possibility that they give the company what it seeks when comparing the rest of the industry.

 

[bigjets]

After reading the back and forth here I thought it was worth throwing something out here....

All the posts with quoted/cited material on the RLA mediation process, have left out a critical point.

After a PEB is called and issues a report, it isn't just "the company can impose, and the union engage self help"

The third (and most likely IMHO) possibility is that congress will act.

From nmb.gov

Under Section 10 of the RLA, if a dispute substantially threatens essential transportation in any section of the country, the NMB notifies the President who may establish a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB). If so created, the PEB has 30 days in which to investigate the dispute and report to the President during which the status-quo remains in effect. The parties may choose to accept the recommendations of the PEB, negotiate their own agreement, or, after 30 days from the issuance of the PEB report to the President exercise Self Help, unless Congress takes action.

While no airline/union dispute has risen to the level of congressional action thus far, several railroads have indeed had their disputes resolved by congress, and as AA is the nations largest carrier, it is a VERY real possibility that you guys may become the first Airline to have your contract settled by congress should mediation prove futile.

Or the airline executives from the other airlines convince congress not to act thereby letting AA shrink and having less capacity in the airline industry creating profits. Just like we all thought USair should have been liquidated during their second bankruptcy.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Or the airline executives from the other airlines convince congress not to act thereby letting AA shrink and having less capacity in the airline industry creating profits. Just like we all thought USair should have been liquidated during their second bankruptcy.

While Ive learned to never say never when congress is involved with anything, in this case, I dont think the existing airline execs would hold enough sway over the state and local representatives that would certainly rally against an American shutdown/loss of service due to a strike.

JMHO

 

[1986Mekanic]

I'm not at liberty to speculate on what may or may not happen.

To me the best way to avoid a protracted labor battle, including self help is to give the leadership my support, especially Samuelsen, since he is clearly on record saying he will not sign a crappy agreement.

I believe those of us that are openly critical and unsupportive only serve to give support to the company's goals which are to have as few of us as possible and to pay us the least and give us the least amount of benefits.
I believe anyone that thinks differently on that point is sadly mistaken.

 

[MetalMover]

I'm not at liberty to speculate on what may or may not happen.

To me the best way to avoid a protracted labor battle, including self help is to give the leadership my support, especially Samuelsen, since he is clearly on record saying he will not sign a crappy agreement.

I believe those of us that are openly critical and unsupportive only serve to give support to the company's goals which are to have as few of us as possible and to pay us the least and give us the least amount of benefits.
I believe anyone that thinks differently on that point is sadly mistaken.

Wrong, the big mouth did more damage than good.
Maybe you will finally see the light in the end. One way or another the company comes out the winner.
If you prefer to wait for a strike, be my guest. Let's see how you like it should that day come.

 

[bigjets]

Well, as we all know, under rla after a 30 cooling the company is free to impose and the union is free to engage in self help. Is it possible Mr Samuelsen is aware of this? Hence, the verbose threats? And I'd so, and if we all come to that, wouldnt it be best for all of us to engage the company as our representatives ask? Or, are there those among us willing to become scabs.

It’s funny how we have so little faith in our union or half of the association that represents us, that we can believe that he doesn’t know about RLA.

Well at least he knows threats are meaningless to former NWA management. He should have learned that from AMFA.

 

[ALUS78]

It’s funny how we have so little faith in our union or half of the association that represents us, that we can believe that he doesn’t know about RLA.

Well at least he knows threats are meaningless to former NWA management. He should have learned that from AMFA.

I dont know about meaningless, the threat probably backfired only strengthening the company rep's resolve .....what good is threatening a stronger opponent

 

[MetalMover]

It’s funny how we have so little faith in our union or half of the association that represents us, that we can believe that he doesn’t know about RLA.

Well at least he knows threats are meaningless to former NWA management. He should have learned that from AMFA.

Well maybe now AMFA and the TWU are in one big lovefest as per some poster here, they can school the big mouth on the consequences.

 

[bigjets]

I tend to agree with you on the point of rla, but, not necessarily on Mr Samuelsen. I believe that while he may have made verbose threats, perhaps that's due to the fact he's young and may lack an old guys experience. However, it does show that his heart is in it and it seems he's drawn a line and won't agree to a "crappy deal", like so many have in the past. Perhaps we should back his "play" instead of chopping his legs off?

In theory I agree with you. It’s in our own best interest to back the association since we have no choice and AA helped the association keep out all other unions.

Does Samuelsen speak for the association or just the twu, when he is threatening who he thought was AAs CFO? Hopefully he knows by now that Isom is AA’s President.

Hopefully association asks to be released before the next recession kicks in.

 

[bigjets]

Well maybe now AMFA and the TWU are in one big lovefest as per some poster here, they can school the big mouth on the consequences.

He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy that can be educated. He should have learned all that before running his suck.

 

[bigjets]

While Ive learned to never say never when congress is involved with anything, in this case, I dont think the existing airline execs would hold enough sway over the state and local representatives that would certainly rally against an American shutdown/loss of service due to a strike.

JMHO

I think greed is a big motivator, whoever stands to make the most will pay the most. Look at hog, he doesn’t want 50 more AMT spots to open at DFW/DWH because it might effect his easy OT.

Who knows by the time we get released right at recession time the airline industry might be made stronger with AA losing some workforce. Hope not, that might effect hogs OT.

There are still 30 guys on DFW transfer list, some originally from AFW still trying to get back to Texas YEARS later. Greed is a motherFer

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I think greed is a big motivator, whoever stands to make the most will pay the most. Look at hog, he doesn’t want 50 more AMT spots to open at DFW/DWH because it might effect his easy OT.

Who knows by the time we get released right at recession time the airline industry might be made stronger with AA losing some workforce. Hope not, that might effect hogs OT.

There are still 30 guys on DFW transfer list, some originally from AFW still trying to get back to Texas YEARS later. Greed is a motherFer

You miss the entire point of my posting Bigjets. The OT I do work is to supplement that frozen pension by bolstering my 401K. I`m no where near the top of the OT list for that matter. The point is those 50 DFW guys coming over to our hangar impacts our manning, shifts and days off and yes, overtime too. I will say it one more time, I have NO PROBLEM with DFW opening slots at DFW. I DO have a big problem with DFW guys coming on the DWH property permanently doing work we have been doing. Moot point though, as Local 567 is adamant this is not going to happen. Heck even the company has told the local that is not doable.