Amended Pass Travel Policy

[bigman60]

Agreed! The senior management travel perks are incredibly generous, and the gift to departing execs was especially egregious. :rant:

I will say this: I know for a fact (having been on the plane) that when Doug travels w/ his family, they all fly coach.

I wouldn't blame DP for flying first class if he could, he's a tall guy. If he is flying coach, then I wonder why our pitch in Y is so bad.

BTW flew one of the ETOPS 757's the other day. Avoid the Window Seats on the second bulkhead exit row like the plague. The only people that can possibly fit there are not legally allowed to sit there (under 15).

 

[UPNAWAY]

Revenue Dilution! WHAT A JOKE! Get execs and families out of 1st class if your worried about REVENUE DILUTION!

I'll make a feable attempt at this:

I'll assume it is the same as wages, it is a numbers thing.
Only a few dozen execs many of us. Do the math yourself. All the Directors and above salary's doesn't equal the cost of one of the large representative groups just becuase there is more of you than them.

 

[UWCactus]

I wouldn't blame DP for flying first class if he could, he's a tall guy. If he is flying coach, then I wonder why our pitch in Y is so bad.

BTW flew one of the ETOPS 757's the other day. Avoid the Window Seats on the second bulkhead exit row like the plague. The only people that can possibly fit there are not legally allowed to sit there (under 15).

That would be 8ABC and 7DEF, the worst seats in the business and they are bad on every ETOPS US West a/c.

 

[ChrisUS]

Retirees are just that...RETIRED. Active employees have jobs to return home to etc. When they retire, then they will have the "TIME" to catch whatever flight they can. Not to say many under the guise of "retired" may be working other jobs, but give the active ones a break here. Most are younger, have families, and jobs to attend to and that should be priority!

VERY few retirees have the luxury of time. We get no medical, a pittance of a pension and have new jobs with less vacation time than those with 10-15 years of active service. WE have families and jobs to attend to also. I dont know ANY retirees who are just sitting around doing nothing. <_<

How does senior management retirees fly????????????

CONFIRMED

 

[ChrisUS]

Some day alot of you will be in the same position, and wait and see how it feels.

Ah, but see, the ones making the decisions are in their 30's most likely and retirement is an "eternity" away for them so it doesnt affect them. Sort of like the way young kids are so reckless. They think they are immortal but soon find out otherwise.
Maybe the theory is to keep the active employee "happy" any way you can that is no cost because they are going to get screwed more and more in the future just like we retirees have in the past.

 

[bigman60]

That would be 8ABC and 7DEF, the worst seats in the business and they are bad on every ETOPS US West a/c.

Meant row 27, but those seats are bad too.

 

[Seatacus]

we (generally speaking) are more concerned about the immediate flight benefits.

Its hard for us to understand your point of view,

Maybe it is because you are concerned (generally speaking)about what suits you only. Maybe someday you will be in a position where you have people rallying to take away something you were promised. Perhaps then you will understand.

 

[UWCactus]

Maybe it is because you are concerned (generally speaking)about what suits you only. Maybe someday you will be in a position where you have people rallying to take away something you were promised. Perhaps then you will understand.

I think that was his point to begin with.

 

[Old PSA]

Just to add another thought. The seniority vs. checkin time order has not been finalized yet (as far as I have been able to determine). I was thinking we might "piss off" everybody equally by using checkin order and including retirees into the mix as active.

 

[ChrisUS]

I submitted a suggestion to middlerow23 to allow retirees to fly first class at no extra charge if it's available.

That unfortunately is pretty much worth nothing. We give free upgrades to all prefered memebers and they can book F up to 7 days in advance. I cant recall when I saw empty seats in F. I have free upgrades from perefect attendance for years and cant use them. Thanks for the effort though bud.

Just to add another thought. The seniority vs. checkin time order has not been finalized yet (as far as I have been able to determine). I was thinking we might "piss off" everybody equally by using checkin order and including retirees into the mix as active.

No, that wont piss off the US West people. Thats what they want for the most part. Even with checkin order, retirees go below. Seniority was the one thing we had left after working through paycuts, crashes, bad press, mergers where you lost seniority, understaffing, terrible management and GOD knows what else.

 

[Old PSA]

ChrisUS,

I agree completely ( boy do i agree!!!) but it appears that the senior managerment doesn't. They appear to have made their decision about retirees being second class non-revs. I was suggesting that the retirees be included into the same classification as active employees using the checkin time boarding order since that does not appear to have been finalized. Again, it was just a thought.

 

[bigman60]

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory.

I realize that our dedicated retirees gave years of service and put up with more frustration than I could ever handle, but this decision makes too much sense to the white collar crowd. Enjoy your retirement, use your freedom to be flexible when flying. If you've moved on to a new job, I hope it pays well enough to buy a ticket when you need to be somewhere.

One other thing I just thought of, and this may be the entire reason for this policy. Think of the number of retirees that live in the Phoenix area (from US, HP and every other company in this country), then think of the high load factors we have, in this situation could an Active PHX employee ever get on a flight?

 

[lasttoboard]

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory.

I realize that our dedicated retirees gave years of service and put up with more frustration than I could ever handle, but this decision makes too much sense to the white collar crowd. Enjoy your retirement, use your freedom to be flexible when flying. If you've moved on to a new job, I hope it pays well enough to buy a ticket when you need to be somewhere.

One other thing I just thought of, and this may be the entire reason for this policy. Think of the number of retirees that live in the Phoenix area (from US, HP and every other company in this country), then think of the high load factors we have, in this situation could an Active PHX employee ever get on a flight?

Why all the smoke and mirrors on this issue? HP has nobody with senority and it's just an attempt to "throw a bone" to the good people impacted by the merge.I might add at the expense of the retiree, is that a new concept or what!

 

[PQAKnow-It-All]

Maybe it is because you are concerned (generally speaking)about what suits you only. Maybe someday you will be in a position where you have people rallying to take away something you were promised. Perhaps then you will understand.

To be quite honest, That is excatly what I ment to imply with that statement. I have no illusions that I am most interested in the way benefits will affect me. Anyone who claims not to hold their own interest first, is kidding themselves. Not trying to be rude in anyway, I'm just being brutally honest to myself.

And, I do feel I have people rallying to take away something we were promised, so, that, I do understand. Don't think just because we disagree, that we don't have nearly the same reasons for our disagreements.

 

[Seatacus]

Its hard for us to understand your point of view,

What I meant was that I don't believe it is that hard to understand if you consider the amount of time and energy some people have invested in this company.